SCOTTISH LEAGUE SFAQS

Q From 'Gersman' "Can you settle an argument on another site saying Celtic hold all the attendance records as follows. I know the League one is wrong (it's Rangers v Celtic 118,567, 1939) and the European and Cup ones are right. But what about the other two?"

Euro v Leeds 1970
League v Rangers 1938
Cup v Aberdeen 1937
Friendly v Real Madrid 1967
WCC V Racing Club 1967

A You don't say whether the claims are for Scottish, European or World records. Or whether they are club football only. I mention this because international football often draws bigger gates and one of those matches you list wasn't played in Scotland. The 'friendly' is in fact Alfredo Di Stefano's testimonial match in the Bernabeu Stadium in Madrid on June 7th 1967. Three of the others were at Hampden and the 1938 league game was at Parkhead. Assuming it is CLUB records you're looking for,

The Scottish CLUB records are:

European: 136,505. Celtic v Leeds United. European Cup semi-final at Hampden Park on April 15th 1970.

League: 118,567. Rangers v Celtic. Division One match at Ibrox on January 2nd 1939

Scottish Cup: 147,365. Celtic v Aberdeen. The Final at Hampden Park on April 24th 1937

Friendly: 104,393. Rangers v Eintracht Frankfurt. Official opening of the floodlights at Hampden Park on October 17th 1961

World Club Championship: 83,437. Celtic v Racing Club at Hampden Park on October 18th 1967.

As this was the ONLY WCC match ever played in Scotland then it HAS to hold the record! A couple of words of warning about this game. I've seen it quoted as 103,000 elsewhere. And the usually reliable RSSSF website gives it as a phenomenal 170,000! I always advise people to be wary of crowd figures which end in three zeros. And in this case with good reason. My figure of 83,437 comes from the Hampden Park gate book and should therefore be regarded as official.

The European and Scottish Cup figures above are also British and European records. There are claims for figures of around 120,000 cited for matches in Spain but in the absence of definitive proof I would suggest the League figure should also be regarded as a British and European record unless or until evidence is produced to the contrary.

The other two records are more problematic. Not every country keeps detailed attendance figures for competitive matches let alone friendlies. I've seen 115,000 and 125,000 quoted for the Real v Celtic game but frankly I'm sceptical about those figures. Real's European Cup quarter-final against Inter Milan in March that year drew 88,394. Now, that's another game where some sources cite the crowd as 110,000 or 120,000.

The same applies to the WCC. Of the WCC ties played in Europe from 1960-1979 inclusive only the first one - between Real Madrid and Penarol - on September 4th 1960 claims to have attracted a bigger crowd than the match at Hampden with an estimate of between 90,000-100,000.

My conclusion is that if Rangers claim the European friendly record and Celtic the European WCC record it would be hard to argue against either claim.

WORLD club records are another matter entirely. Just as Hampden has a lock on European records at both club and country level so does the Maracana at the global level. None of the records mentioned here are world records. If you want further details on these, let me know.

In terms of matches played in Scotland, including international games, Celtic v Aberdeen above is the third biggest, Celtic v Leeds is eighth, Rangers v Celtic 51st and Rangers v Eintracht 84th and Celtic v Racing Club is nowhere near the top 100.

Q From Carlucci: "Could you tell me who were the Raith Rovers men that faced Rangers in the 1948-49 Scottish League Cup and the scoring sequence?"

A The Raith Rovers team that played Rangers in the League Cup Final at Hampden Park on March 12th 1949 was:

Westland, McClure, McNaught, Young, Colville, Leigh, Maule, Collins, Penman, Brady, Joyner

Raith, then in the 'B' Division had the better of the first half and in 41 minutes had a goal disallowed for offside. One minute after the interval a Torry Gillick header put Rangers ahead. Willie Paton scored Rangers second after 59 minutes.

The match finished 2-0 to Rangers.

Q Roger Campbell, assistant coach Aston Villa U-13 writes: "You answered one of my queries from last year regarding the football career of Tom Boyd. He was presenting the trophies at the U-12 football team which I am assistant coach. So this year I have managed to procure the services of Derek Whyte, ex Celtic, Aberdeen, Middlesbrough and Scotland servant and of course recently deposed co-manager of Partick Thistle. So I would be grateful if you could furnish me with career information on him."

A Derek Whyte was born in Glasgow on August 31st 1968 and joined Celtic, aged 17. He made his debut, still only 17, in a 1-1 draw at home to Hearts on Feb 22nd 1986. The young defender must have made a big impression as he retained his place for the remainder of that season. Of the 11 league games he took part in, Celtic drew the first three and won the next eight to pip Hearts to the title on goal difference.

For the next six years he was a mainstay of the Celtic defence either at left-back or as a central defender. He played in the double-winning side of Celticâ€™s centenary season in 1988 and in the team that retained the Scottish Cup the following year.

It wasn't winners medals all the way though. Derek also played in the team which finished runners-up in the League and League Cup in 1986-87 and in the side which was the first to lose a Scottish Cup final on penalties in 1990.

By 1992 Celtic were struggling in the wake of a revitalised Rangers and after 275 appearances and eight goals (League 216A 7G, Cup 26A, League Cup 18 A, Europe 15A 1G) Whyte made his last Celtic appearance as a substitute at Aberdeen in a league game in August 1992.

Still not quite 24 he was transferred to Middlesbrough for a club record fee of £900,000 to strengthen a Boro side which had won promotion to the inaugural FA Premier League.

Unfortunately Boro were relegated but came back two years later with Derek winning a First Division champions medal. His five years on Teesside were tumultuous ones as the club not only moved up and down but also left Ayresome Park for the Riverside Stadium and a stint which began alongside fellow Scots like Willie Falconer, John Hendrie and Bernie Slaven ended in the company of Juninho, Emerson and Ravanelli.

Derek had the distinction of setting up Hendrie for the last goal ever scored at Ayresome Park on April 30th 1995. His last full season was a disappointing one as Boro reached and lost both major Cup Finals in 1996-97 (though Derek played in neither) and the side were relegated once again. Back in the First Division he played his final game for Boro in a 4-0 home win over Reading in December 1997. He had notched up 195 first team appearances and scored three times (League 167A 2G, Cup 6A, League Cup 16A 1G, Anglo-Italian Cup 6A).

A week later and after £100,000 had changed hands between the clubs he was making his debut for Aberdeen at Rugby Park as the Dons went down 1-0 to Kilmarnock in the League five days before Xmas 1997.

Like his previous two clubs Derek Whyte gave Aberdeen sterling service over the next few years, making 155 first class appearances (League 134A, Cup 12A, League Cup 8A, Europe 1A), including another Scottish Cup Final appearance in the ill-fated match of 200 against Rangers when early injury to Jim Leighton effectively ended the game as a contest. His last game as a Don was on May 12th 2002 in a 1-0 home defeat by Celtic in the league.

Freed by Aberdeen he was back in the SPL at the start of the next season with newly-promoted Partick Thistle, making his debut on August 3rd 2002 in a 0-0 league draw with Dundee United at Firhill. He played 45 times for the Jags (League 40A, League Cup 5A) before hanging up his boots, aged 35, after a 3-0 Firhill league defeat against Aberdeen on December 13th 2003.

That brought down the curtain on a playing career which had lasted almost 18 years and 670 first class matches. It wasn't the end of Derek Whyte and football though for he was appointed co-manager of Thistle along with Gerry Britton

Unfortunately the pair couldn't keep the Jags in the SPL and with a second successive relegation looming he and Britton parted company with the Maryhill club a year later.

Derek also served Scotland with distinction, making his international debut aged just 19 as a substitute for Maurice Malpas in a 2-0 win over Belgium in a European Championship qualifier at Hampden in October 1987. In his 12 international appearances, Scotland won six, drew five and lost only one.

His personal record is even more impressive. That solitary defeat - against the USA in 1996 - was the first time any side scored against Scotland when Derek Whyte was on the field. And that was in his NINTH international. All told Scotland lost only three goals in two matches of the twelve he played in (Ecuador also scored in a 2-1 Scottish win in the Kirin Cup in Japan in 1995 but Whyte had been substituted by the time the goal was scored). Nine of his twelve games were Scottish shut-outs.

Which make sit all the more surprising that he never took part in a major finals though he was a squad member for the European Championships of 1992 and 1996 and also for the World Cup in 1998.

Derek's final Scotland appearance was as a substitute in the memorable 1-0 win over Germany in Bremen in April 1999

Q Ron, in Australia, wrote "The first football game I ever went to was on the 4th October, 1978. It was a midweek Scottish League Cup first leg tie at Douglas Park, Hamilton Accies 0 v. Aberdeen 1.

Can you give me the full team listing for both teams in that match including substitutes and who the goalscorer was (from memory it may have been Drew Jarvie or Ian Scanlon ?)."

A Line-ups for this third round tie were:

Hamilton: Ferguson, Grant, Kellachan, Fairlie, Dempsey, Alexander, Young (McGrogan), Graham, Howie, Glavin, Reilly

Aberdeen: Leighton, Kennedy, McLelland, McMaster, McLeish, Miller, Davidson, Strachan, Fleming, Jarvie, Scanlon

Your memory's in good shape, Ron. Ian Scanlon scored the only goal of the game in the first half in front of 3,555 supporters.

The Dons won the second leg 7-1 a week later, watched by 11,083. Joe Harper scored four that night (including two penalties) with Doug Rougvie, Dom Sullivan and and Stuart Kennedy also registering. Jamie Fairlie scored for the Accies.

Teams for the second leg were:

Aberdeen: Leighton, Kennedy, McLelland, Rougvie (Strachan), McLeish, Miller, Sullivan, Archibald, Harper, Fleming, Scanlon (Simpson)

Accies starting line-up was unchanged. McDowall replaced Grant and Wright came on for Reilly.

Ian Scanlon's substitution by Neil Simpson was the latter's debut for Aberdeen who went on to reach the Final where they lost 2-1 to Rangers

Wasn't that second leg that made you emigrate, was it?


	Record Attendances Raith Rovers 1949 Derek Whyte Accies v Dons 1978
	Q From 'Gersman' "Can you settle an argument on another site saying Celtic hold all the attendance records as follows. I know the League one is wrong (it's Rangers v Celtic 118,567, 1939) and the European and Cup ones are right. But what about the other two?" Euro v Leeds 1970 League v Rangers 1938 Cup v Aberdeen 1937 Friendly v Real Madrid 1967 WCC V Racing Club 1967 A You don't say whether the claims are for Scottish, European or World records. Or whether they are club football only. I mention this because international football often draws bigger gates and one of those matches you list wasn't played in Scotland. The 'friendly' is in fact Alfredo Di Stefano's testimonial match in the Bernabeu Stadium in Madrid on June 7th 1967. Three of the others were at Hampden and the 1938 league game was at Parkhead. Assuming it is CLUB records you're looking for, The Scottish CLUB records are: European: 136,505. Celtic v Leeds United. European Cup semi-final at Hampden Park on April 15th 1970. League: 118,567. Rangers v Celtic. Division One match at Ibrox on January 2nd 1939 Scottish Cup: 147,365. Celtic v Aberdeen. The Final at Hampden Park on April 24th 1937 Friendly: 104,393. Rangers v Eintracht Frankfurt. Official opening of the floodlights at Hampden Park on October 17th 1961 World Club Championship: 83,437. Celtic v Racing Club at Hampden Park on October 18th 1967. As this was the ONLY WCC match ever played in Scotland then it HAS to hold the record! A couple of words of warning about this game. I've seen it quoted as 103,000 elsewhere. And the usually reliable RSSSF website gives it as a phenomenal 170,000! I always advise people to be wary of crowd figures which end in three zeros. And in this case with good reason. My figure of 83,437 comes from the Hampden Park gate book and should therefore be regarded as official. The European and Scottish Cup figures above are also British and European records. There are claims for figures of around 120,000 cited for matches in Spain but in the absence of definitive proof I would suggest the League figure should also be regarded as a British and European record unless or until evidence is produced to the contrary. The other two records are more problematic. Not every country keeps detailed attendance figures for competitive matches let alone friendlies. I've seen 115,000 and 125,000 quoted for the Real v Celtic game but frankly I'm sceptical about those figures. Real's European Cup quarter-final against Inter Milan in March that year drew 88,394. Now, that's another game where some sources cite the crowd as 110,000 or 120,000. The same applies to the WCC. Of the WCC ties played in Europe from 1960-1979 inclusive only the first one - between Real Madrid and Penarol - on September 4th 1960 claims to have attracted a bigger crowd than the match at Hampden with an estimate of between 90,000-100,000. My conclusion is that if Rangers claim the European friendly record and Celtic the European WCC record it would be hard to argue against either claim. WORLD club records are another matter entirely. Just as Hampden has a lock on European records at both club and country level so does the Maracana at the global level. None of the records mentioned here are world records. If you want further details on these, let me know. In terms of matches played in Scotland, including international games, Celtic v Aberdeen above is the third biggest, Celtic v Leeds is eighth, Rangers v Celtic 51st and Rangers v Eintracht 84th and Celtic v Racing Club is nowhere near the top 100. Q From Carlucci: "Could you tell me who were the Raith Rovers* men that faced Rangers in the 1948-49 Scottish League Cup and the scoring sequence?"* A The Raith Rovers team that played Rangers in the League Cup Final at Hampden Park on March 12th 1949 was: Westland, McClure, McNaught, Young, Colville, Leigh, Maule, Collins, Penman, Brady, Joyner Raith, then in the 'B' Division had the better of the first half and in 41 minutes had a goal disallowed for offside. One minute after the interval a Torry Gillick header put Rangers ahead. Willie Paton scored Rangers second after 59 minutes. The match finished 2-0 to Rangers. Q Roger Campbell, assistant coach Aston Villa U-13 writes: "You answered one of my queries from last year regarding the football career of Tom Boyd. He was presenting the trophies at the U-12 football team which I am assistant coach. So this year I have managed to procure the services of Derek Whyte, ex Celtic, Aberdeen, Middlesbrough and Scotland servant and of course recently deposed co-manager of Partick Thistle. So I would be grateful if you could furnish me with career information on him." A Derek Whyte was born in Glasgow on August 31st 1968 and joined Celtic, aged 17. He made his debut, still only 17, in a 1-1 draw at home to Hearts on Feb 22nd 1986. The young defender must have made a big impression as he retained his place for the remainder of that season. Of the 11 league games he took part in, Celtic drew the first three and won the next eight to pip Hearts to the title on goal difference. For the next six years he was a mainstay of the Celtic defence either at left-back or as a central defender. He played in the double-winning side of Celticâ€™s centenary season in 1988 and in the team that retained the Scottish Cup the following year. It wasn't winners medals all the way though. Derek also played in the team which finished runners-up in the League and League Cup in 1986-87 and in the side which was the first to lose a Scottish Cup final on penalties in 1990. By 1992 Celtic were struggling in the wake of a revitalised Rangers and after 275 appearances and eight goals (League 216A 7G, Cup 26A, League Cup 18 A, Europe 15A 1G) Whyte made his last Celtic appearance as a substitute at Aberdeen in a league game in August 1992. Still not quite 24 he was transferred to Middlesbrough for a club record fee of £900,000 to strengthen a Boro side which had won promotion to the inaugural FA Premier League. Unfortunately Boro were relegated but came back two years later with Derek winning a First Division champions medal. His five years on Teesside were tumultuous ones as the club not only moved up and down but also left Ayresome Park for the Riverside Stadium and a stint which began alongside fellow Scots like Willie Falconer, John Hendrie and Bernie Slaven ended in the company of Juninho, Emerson and Ravanelli. Derek had the distinction of setting up Hendrie for the last goal ever scored at Ayresome Park on April 30th 1995. His last full season was a disappointing one as Boro reached and lost both major Cup Finals in 1996-97 (though Derek played in neither) and the side were relegated once again. Back in the First Division he played his final game for Boro in a 4-0 home win over Reading in December 1997. He had notched up 195 first team appearances and scored three times (League 167A 2G, Cup 6A, League Cup 16A 1G, Anglo-Italian Cup 6A). A week later and after £100,000 had changed hands between the clubs he was making his debut for Aberdeen at Rugby Park as the Dons went down 1-0 to Kilmarnock in the League five days before Xmas 1997. Like his previous two clubs Derek Whyte gave Aberdeen sterling service over the next few years, making 155 first class appearances (League 134A, Cup 12A, League Cup 8A, Europe 1A), including another Scottish Cup Final appearance in the ill-fated match of 200 against Rangers when early injury to Jim Leighton effectively ended the game as a contest. His last game as a Don was on May 12th 2002 in a 1-0 home defeat by Celtic in the league. Freed by Aberdeen he was back in the SPL at the start of the next season with newly-promoted Partick Thistle, making his debut on August 3rd 2002 in a 0-0 league draw with Dundee United at Firhill. He played 45 times for the Jags (League 40A, League Cup 5A) before hanging up his boots, aged 35, after a 3-0 Firhill league defeat against Aberdeen on December 13th 2003. That brought down the curtain on a playing career which had lasted almost 18 years and 670 first class matches. It wasn't the end of Derek Whyte and football though for he was appointed co-manager of Thistle along with Gerry Britton Unfortunately the pair couldn't keep the Jags in the SPL and with a second successive relegation looming he and Britton parted company with the Maryhill club a year later. Derek also served Scotland with distinction, making his international debut aged just 19 as a substitute for Maurice Malpas in a 2-0 win over Belgium in a European Championship qualifier at Hampden in October 1987. In his 12 international appearances, Scotland won six, drew five and lost only one. His personal record is even more impressive. That solitary defeat - against the USA in 1996 - was the first time any side scored against Scotland when Derek Whyte was on the field. And that was in his NINTH international. All told Scotland lost only three goals in two matches of the twelve he played in (Ecuador also scored in a 2-1 Scottish win in the Kirin Cup in Japan in 1995 but Whyte had been substituted by the time the goal was scored). Nine of his twelve games were Scottish shut-outs. Which make sit all the more surprising that he never took part in a major finals though he was a squad member for the European Championships of 1992 and 1996 and also for the World Cup in 1998. Derek's final Scotland appearance was as a substitute in the memorable 1-0 win over Germany in Bremen in April 1999 Q Ron, in Australia, wrote "The first football game I ever went to was on the 4th October, 1978. It was a midweek Scottish League Cup first leg tie at Douglas Park, Hamilton Accies 0 v. Aberdeen 1. Can you give me the full team listing for both teams in that match including substitutes and who the goalscorer was (from memory it may have been Drew Jarvie or Ian Scanlon ?)." A Line-ups for this third round tie were: Hamilton: Ferguson, Grant, Kellachan, Fairlie, Dempsey, Alexander, Young (McGrogan), Graham, Howie, Glavin, Reilly Aberdeen: Leighton, Kennedy, McLelland, McMaster, McLeish, Miller, Davidson, Strachan, Fleming, Jarvie, Scanlon Your memory's in good shape, Ron. Ian Scanlon scored the only goal of the game in the first half in front of 3,555 supporters. The Dons won the second leg 7-1 a week later, watched by 11,083. Joe Harper scored four that night (including two penalties) with Doug Rougvie, Dom Sullivan and and Stuart Kennedy also registering. Jamie Fairlie scored for the Accies. Teams for the second leg were: Aberdeen: Leighton, Kennedy, McLelland, Rougvie (Strachan), McLeish, Miller, Sullivan, Archibald, Harper, Fleming, Scanlon (Simpson) Accies starting line-up was unchanged. McDowall replaced Grant and Wright came on for Reilly. Ian Scanlon's substitution by Neil Simpson was the latter's debut for Aberdeen who went on to reach the Final where they lost 2-1 to Rangers Wasn't that second leg that made you emigrate, was it? .