War Time Results

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Smith Must Score
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War Time Results

Post by Smith Must Score » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:04 pm

January 1st 1943 Rangers beat Celtic 8-1...Can anyone explain why the results during the war years were not recognized officially....cheers in advance.

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Post by Scottish » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:18 pm

Simply because, unlike WW1, the SFL shut down within days of the outbreak of war, the normal divisions were suspended and several clubs were unable to compete during the conflict.

Meiklejohn
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Post by Meiklejohn » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:09 pm

League football was suspended when war broke out but fairly quickly returned because it was considered a boost for public morale and allowed some semblance of normality to return to everyday life.

Although the league titles are not regarded as official, football remained popular, remained competitive and never lost its edge. Some clubs found it tough - many found it very tough as they ended up disappearing - but I would bet none of it felt unofficial to the supporters attending every week.

There's a bit more info on the 8-1 game here:

http://www.rangers.vitalfootball.co.uk/ ... p?a=507374

I have been told, but haven't checked for myself, that, despite the game being "unofficial", the solitary goal for is counted in Celtic's official records but the eight against are not.

Gunboat Briggs
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Post by Gunboat Briggs » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:18 pm

It should also be added that there was no league competition organised on a national basis during the wartime years. After the suspension of the 1939-40 campaign, regionalised Western and Eastern leagues were hastily introduced. The absence of lucrative fixtures against the Old Firm made this arrangement unpopular amongst the leading East Coast clubs, hence the introduction of the Southern League from 1940 and, after a years inactivity for clubs in Fife, Tayside and Aberdeen, a North Eastern League in 1941. This arrangement lasted until 1945 when two national division were reintroduced, albeit still under the auspices of the Southern League for a year and so the 1945-46 fixtures are also usually classed as unofficial.

The Mighty Atom
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Post by The Mighty Atom » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:45 pm

Meiklejohn wrote:League football was suspended when war broke out but fairly quickly returned because it was considered a boost for public morale and allowed some semblance of normality to return to everyday life.

Although the league titles are not regarded as official, football remained popular, remained competitive and never lost its edge. Some clubs found it tough

But not those clubs who kept their best players away from the frontline by getting them jobs in the Govan shipyards :wink:

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Post by Scottish » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:07 am

Meiklejohn wrote:League football was suspended when war broke out but fairly quickly returned because it was considered a boost for public morale and allowed some semblance of normality to return to everyday life.
The big difference at the outset of the war - compared to the earlier conflict - was the fear of air attack. It was when that didn't happen, in the early stages at any rate, that the authorities relented on their earlier decision.

The sequence of events was thus:

September 2nd: Normal league programme
September 3rd: Declaration of war
September 7th: SFA suspends ALL football
September 10th: First high-profile casualty of the suspension is the OF league game scheduled for that day

After this friendlies were permitted but only if they were outside designated 'dangerous areas' such as grounds close to military institutions, munitions factories, shipbuilding areas etc.

September 22nd: Ban on competitive matches lifted

October: Establishment of regional leagues

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Post by bobby s » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:29 am

The Mighty Atom wrote: But not those clubs who kept their best players away from the frontline by getting them jobs in the Govan shipyards :wink:
I've read that about the first world war - Eastern clubs struggled because of the call ups whilst Rangers and Celtic got the best picks of the players in the shipyards because they were protected jobs.

Having just looked at the results from the first world war, I doubt Morton have ever been as strong since.
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Sat31March1928
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Post by Sat31March1928 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:07 pm

bobby s wrote:
The Mighty Atom wrote: But not those clubs who kept their best players away from the frontline by getting them jobs in the Govan shipyards :wink:
I've read that about the first world war - Eastern clubs struggled because of the call ups whilst Rangers and Celtic got the best picks of the players in the shipyards because they were protected jobs.

Having just looked at the results from the first world war, I doubt Morton have ever been as strong since.
Hearts would have won the league in 1914-15 if the majority of the team hadn't been doing full Army training followed by playing games on the Saturday.

I count WWII games, appearances and goals scored as 'competitive' records for the purposes of 'Club' Records.

I also think that Wartime Internationals should count towards Caps. The games themselves can be given a 'lesser' status but the players who played in front of 100,000 plus crowds should be recognised by the SFA.
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

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Post by nightfire » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:21 pm

Meiklejohn wrote:League football was suspended when war broke out but fairly quickly returned because it was considered a boost for public morale and allowed some semblance of normality to return to everyday life.

Although the league titles are not regarded as official, football remained popular, remained competitive and never lost its edge. Some clubs found it tough - many found it very tough as they ended up disappearing - but I would bet none of it felt unofficial to the supporters attending every week.

There's a bit more info on the 8-1 game here:

http://www.rangers.vitalfootball.co.uk/ ... p?a=507374

I have been told, but haven't checked for myself, that, despite the game being "unofficial", the solitary goal for is counted in Celtic's official records but the eight against are not.
That old chestnut. I will ask the question I always ask when this is raised -please show me the link that confirms this

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Post by nightfire » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:08 pm

bobby s wrote:
The Mighty Atom wrote: But not those clubs who kept their best players away from the frontline by getting them jobs in the Govan shipyards :wink:
I've read that about the first world war - Eastern clubs struggled because of the call ups whilst Rangers and Celtic got the best picks of the players in the shipyards because they were protected jobs.
Having just looked at the results from the first world war, I doubt Morton have ever been as strong since.
It would be interesting to know where you read this . .

In the main, Celtic played junior players to shore up the team rather than use guests. The best example being Matt Busby who was "on duty" in the area and desparate to play for Celtic but they didn't follow this up.

I'm not sure about Rangers although they did have enough players to field 2 teams during at least part of the war years (I assume it was a reserve side that played in the Eastern League) and they also used guests such as Stanley Matthews although that may have been limited to friendly matches.

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Post by bobby s » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:29 pm

I think it was in an article in the official Hibs programme about 20 years ago, I presume it was written by John McKay who has written 3 books on Hibs history.

He was specifically referring to world war I, though.
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Meiklejohn
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Post by Meiklejohn » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:45 pm

nightfire wrote:I'm not sure about Rangers although they did have enough players to field 2 teams during at least part of the war years (I assume it was a reserve side that played in the Eastern League) and they also used guests such as Stanley Matthews although that may have been limited to friendly matches.
It was a reserve side that played in the North Eastern league

Stalney Matthews played in a home league game against Morton and a Merchant's Charity Cup tie against Thistle.

jimmythepost
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Post by jimmythepost » Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:35 pm

Great wee book about Falkirk F.C. during WW 2.
Entitled "Eleven Half Decent Footballers and a Bus"
Has a good stats section.
Some amazing stories about the game during 1939-1946.

steve994
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Post by steve994 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:16 am

scottish

September 10th: First high-profile casualty of the suspension is the OF league game scheduled for that day


Are you sure of the date? 10th September was a Sunday. Would it not have been 9th Sept?

Steve

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Post by Scottish » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:37 am

steve994 wrote:scottish

September 10th: First high-profile casualty of the suspension is the OF league game scheduled for that day


Are you sure of the date? 10th September was a Sunday. Would it not have been 9th Sept?

Steve
OMG!!! You are absolutely right. And to make matters worse I have given this date in 'ROAR Of The Crowd.' I wrote on page 59: "The SFA suspended all football on September 7th. The first major sporting casualty was the Old Firm match due three days later."

The game was scheduled for Ibrox on September 9th.

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