SCOTTISH CUP

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Post by Scottish » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:44 pm

I wonder if the time has come to abolish the replay? Designating the following Saturday for replays/postponements is good in theory but this year at least it hasn't worked in practice. As of Saturday evening there were still seven ties undecided - one week after the initial date.

It would cut down on travelling and avoid the farce of repeatedly postponed games.

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm

scottish wrote:I wonder if the time has come to abolish the replay? Designating the following Saturday for replays/postponements is good in theory but this year at least it hasn't worked in practice. As of Saturday evening there were still seven ties undecided - one week after the initial date.

It would cut down on travelling and avoid the farce of repeatedly postponed games.
For me the ability to go away to a difficult venue and earn a replay to bring the game back to your own ground is one of the great attractions fo the Scottish Cup and one of the reasons it stands differently from the League Cup. It's also a way to make more money for clubs and to bring more money into the game with Sky currently picking up a replay per round as well as an original tie.

I'd personally be against the abolishing of replays although I think it's probably right that the showcase semi final and final at Hampden ARE settled on the day.

I don't think we need to abolish replays. These things have happened before and will again. Such is the nature of the Scottish climate. We do maybe need to look at a rule where clubs without floodlights are made to play midweek games neutrally somewhere there is floodlights if they fail to get the game on two Saturdays running. This nonsense about midweek replays taking place at 1pm for part-time players (and working supporters) needs addressed.

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Post by Scottish » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:45 pm

I don't have a strong view one way or the other but I thought I'd throw it into the mix. The League Cup has the virtue of the same rules applying in every round regarding qualification to the next stage. The Scottish Cup has altered its rules several times over the years. For me the pass on replays was sold when penalties were introduced in 1989-90 and the Final was restricted to 120 minutes plus penalties. If the trophy itself can be decided over one game then there's no real reason for any other round to have different rules.

I concur with what you say regarding the climate and Stranraer fans for example have had a rough old time of it replays or no replays. Money-makers? Perhaps where a televised replay is concerned but these kick in only from the 4th round onwards. Do the smaller clubs get a share of that cash? Or is it divvied up between the clubs involved? At any rate precious few replays in the early rounds will make money for the clubs.

I hesitate to use the word 'only' when talking about half a century but up until the 1950s/60s it was common for all replays to be played during working hours in the winter. Even as late as 1961 the final replay had an early evening kick-off as Hampden had no lights.

Scottish Cup replays were the origin of 'Dead Granny Syndrome' whereby thousands of allegedly deceased grandmothers were buried time and time again around the same time as Cup replays kicked off.

This practice continued even into the floodlight era. During the power cuts and miners disputes of the early 1970s matches kicked off so that they could finish in daylight. My father recalls plunking school to hitch to Fir Park for a Scottish Cup replay in 1933. I did exactly the same thing in 1972. In both instance there was a bigger crowd at the daytime midweek match than the Saturday game. (Incidentally Motherwell won both matches and while my father left Fir Park disappointed I was happy about the outcome. Cyber-pint for anyone who can tell me why).

At any rate there doesn't seem to be much logic over dates. I'm thinking in particular of the Lochee United v Ayr United game which is now scheduled for 1.45 pm next Monday. What should have been a big occasion for the Tayside club is now an afternoon game ten days before xmas.

Still, if the weather clears they'll get a visit from a genuinely big club in the next round!

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:34 pm

Could it be something to do with the defeat of another Ayrshire side in the Cup @ beautiful downtown Fir Park that year?

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Post by Scottish » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:42 pm

LEATHERSTOCKING wrote:Could it be something to do with the defeat of another Ayrshire side in the Cup @ beautiful downtown Fir Park that year?
Got it in one. Shows how fitba daft - or maybe just plain daft - we were in those days. On the Saturday a crowd of us went to watch Killie at Elgin in the Scottish Cup - a journey that took 25 hours from start to finish. Then on the Wednesday afternoon three of us thumbed our way to Fir Park to lend Motherwell our vocal support as they beat Ayr 2-1 in a replay.

Of course I already knew my father had done the same thing in the 1930s when Motherwell beat Killie 8-3 so I wasn't too bothered about any consequences if we were found out.

Unlike the attempt a few years earlier to hitch to Coleraine for a Fairs Cup tie. Now THAT was a proper disaster. We arrived in Stranraer just as the ferry departed.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:15 am

Daft? I`ll tell you daft. Back in 1963 I went to see Airdrie play a Lanarkshire Cup tie @ Broomfield in the afternoon & then in the evening to Firhill to watch the Harry Wraggs play in the Fairs Cup. You may have gathered from other contributions to the forum my allegiancies lie elsewhere & I can`t now comprehend just why I should travel all round West Central Scotland to watch four moderate sides in whom I had no emotional attachment whatsoever. Perhaps it was the silky soccer.

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Post by Scottish » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:58 am

LEATHERSTOCKING wrote:Daft? I`ll tell you daft. Back in 1963 I went to see Airdrie play a Lanarkshire Cup tie @ Broomfield in the afternoon & then in the evening to Firhill to watch the Harry Wraggs play in the Fairs Cup.
Thistle in Europe doesn't happen very often but Airdrie? In 1963?

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Post by upthewell » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:23 pm

scottish wrote:
LEATHERSTOCKING wrote:Could it be something to do with the defeat of another Ayrshire side in the Cup @ beautiful downtown Fir Park that year?
Got it in one. Shows how fitba daft - or maybe just plain daft - we were in those days. On the Saturday a crowd of us went to watch Killie at Elgin in the Scottish Cup - a journey that took 25 hours from start to finish. Then on the Wednesday afternoon three of us thumbed our way to Fir Park to lend Motherwell our vocal support as they beat Ayr 2-1 in a replay.

Of course I already knew my father had done the same thing in the 1930s when Motherwell beat Killie 8-3 so I wasn't too bothered about any consequences if we were found out.

Unlike the attempt a few years earlier to hitch to Coleraine for a Fairs Cup tie. Now THAT was a proper disaster. We arrived in Stranraer just as the ferry departed.
Nuts! I remember a few years back watching Killie beat us at Fir Park. I didn't think Killie were all that great...

A week later I drove up to Dens with my claret and amber scarf and paid my way in to the home end to watch Dundee play Killie. They had not long gone into administration and my workmate was a diehard Dee fan. Talk about solidarity - I bought and ate lots of pies to keep that club afloat that day. And was thanked by lots of Dundee fans for my efforts.

Killie won again. Gawd - was I sic of seeing them winning!

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Post by upthewell » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:29 pm

I've just searched soccerbase trying to find that week and come up with nothing. But this is how I remembered it.

I wish I had one of those fitba daft memory things whereby I can pluck hunners of stuff from the old grey matter....

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Post by Scottish » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:27 pm

Nearest I can come up is successive weeks in April 2000 but Killie lost at Fir Park before winning at Dundee.

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Post by upthewell » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 pm

scottish wrote:Nearest I can come up is successive weeks in April 2000 but Killie lost at Fir Park before winning at Dundee.
I remember saying that seeing Killie win in the space of two weeks was just too much. Weird.

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Post by Scottish » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:42 am

upthewell wrote:I remember saying that seeing Killie win in the space of two weeks was just too much. Weird.
Right now two wins in the space of two months wouldn't be bad going.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:19 am

Isn`t "KILLIE" & "TWO WINS IN TWO WEEKS" an oxymoron?

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Post by Scottish » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:40 pm

I know Inverurie are a well-supported side by Highland League standards but 2,500 on a freezing Monday night for a match which has been postponed several times and which therefore must have had an effect on the numbers travelling from Lanarkshire.

Is this (obviously estimated) figure anywhere near accurate? And what has happened to the SFA's live match tracker?

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