Broadfoot's latest

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Broadfoot's latest

Post by Scottish » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:54 am

I hope Darryl Broadfoot isn't sharing a studio anywhere near Forrest Robertson in the near future after Forrest reads Darryl's latest nonsense in The Herald.

Apart from describing Queen's Park as "prehistoric" and "plankton" in his patronising piece he commits - yet again - that offence which so annoys football historians of getting his facts wrong. Broadfoot writes: "He harks back to 1967, when the all-conquering champions of Scotland and Europe won 5-3 in the Scottish Cup, one of only two occasions when the Lisbon Lions conceded more than two goals that season." (my emphasis)

Two occasions?

In the League:
Oct 8th 1966 Hibs 3 Celtic 5
Nov 2nd 1966 Celtic 7 Stirling Albion 3
Nov 19th 1966 Dunfermline 4 Celtic 5
Dec 31st 1966 Celtic 2 Dundee United 3
May 3rd 1967 Dundee United 3 Celtic 2

Scottish Cup
March 11th 1967 Celtic 5 Queen's Park 3

League Cup
September 14th 1966 Celtic 6 Dunfermline 3

I make that seven. Four at Parkhead and three away (so he can't even claim he meant at home) with both Dunfermline and Dundee United managing it twice.

Five of these were in 1966 so perhaps the bold Darryl made a simple mistake and meant the calendar year of 1967? Well, no, because in addition to Queen's Park and Dundee United in the latter part of 66-67 Dundee managed to do so on two occasions in the first half of 1967-68, losing 5-3 in the League Cup Final at Hampden on October 28th and 5-4 at Dens Park in the League on December 16th.

Incidentally, THOSE were the only two occasions Celtic conceded more than two THAT season.

During their nine-in-a-row years Celtic could also make the same claim in 1971-72 when 4-1 defeats to Hearts (League) and Partick Thistle (League Cup Final) were the only times they lost more than two.

For the sake of balance and objectivity during Rangers nine-in-a-row they could claim the same or better in 1988-89 (3-1 defeat at Parkhead and 3-0 at Pittodrie in the League), 1989-90 (3-1 at Ibrox v Bayern Munich in the European Cup), 1991-92 (3-2 at Tannadice, League), 1993-94 (3-0 at Ibrox v Dundee United, League) and 1994-95 (3-0 at Hampden in a nominally away game v Celtic, League and 4-2 at Tynecastle, Scottish Cup).

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Post by lbb » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:14 am

Leatherstocking made a similar claim in this topic - viewtopic.php?t=1844 Perhaps Broadfoot picked it up from here?

I didn't think it was that bad an article - by his standards. I was expecting a 'why oh why are Celtic having to play Queens Park' piece but he's generally quite positive. And he does say they're only 'perceived' to have 'prehistoric' values.

I still think £15 is overpriced - though it's cheaper than Celtic and others normally charge. I hate to repeat the cliche but you can go and see Will Smith's latest film and treat yourself to a bumper bag of popcorn for less than that. And you wouldn't have to sit in the freezing wind and rain to do so. Clubs will have to come back to reality eventually.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:15 pm

I do apologise - Cel`ic did indeed concede 3 @ Parhead to Stirling, Dunfermline, the Arabs & Queen`s in 1966-67. Queen`s wore their hoops @ Parkhead in their game there but I can`t remember if Celtic wore theirs. Certainly when the Tic won 1-0 @ Hampden in 1965`s 2nd Round, Queen`s wore white shirts & black shorts & Celtic their hoops so I`d imagine 2 years later the home side changed but into what?

I can only imagine Darryl was feeling tired & emotional when he wrote today`s Herald article!

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Post by Scottish » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:34 pm

LEATHERSTOCKING wrote:I can only imagine Darryl was feeling tired & emotional when he wrote today`s Herald article!
Taking that phrase back to its literal meanings I can only assume - given his propensity for errors over the years - that he sleeps like Rip Van Winkle and gushes like Kate Winslet.

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Broadfoots latest

Post by kiwiscot » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:15 am

This mornings edition has him saying that the league cup semi finals are heading for a record low attendence as Celtic/Dundee Utd so far have only sold 15000 briefs and Falkirk/Rangers 20000.

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Post by bobby s » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:31 am

I was one of the 900 [or was it 9000] that was there in 2002 Hibs v Ayr.
It's the Hope I can't stand

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Broadfoots latest

Post by kiwiscot » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:43 am

I prosume David was at the Killie/Dundee semi in 1973

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Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:46 am

bobby s wrote:I was one of the 900 [or was it 9000] that was there in 2002 Hibs v Ayr.
I understand that is STILL the only time Ayr United have won a live televised match :lol:

Attendance for that game was actually 11,779. I've attended two LC semis with lower crowds that that - 9,213 Killie v St Mirren in 2001 and 4,682 Dundee v Killie in 1973-74. That was the lowest for many years for a one-off LC semi (and still is for Hampden) until "beaten" by the 4,630 for Livingston v Dunfermline at Easter Road in 2006.

Celtic's Hampden LC lowest is 18,856 v Dundee United in 2003 (though they've played in front of fewer in the away leg in the days when semis were two-legged).

Rangers Hampden lowest is 12,999 v Forfar in 1977-78

But the all-time lowest LC semi crowd is 3,451 at Tynecastle for the second leg of Meadowbank Thistle v Rangers in 1984-85.
Last edited by Scottish on Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:55 am

Just for Darryl

Old Firm League Cup Semi-Finals below 20,000

1960-61 Rangers v QoS 17,000 Celtic Park
1963-64 Rangers v Berwick Rangers 16,039 Hampden
1974-75 Celtic v Airdrieonians 19,332 Hampden
1977-78 Rangers v Forfar Athletic 12,999 Hampden
1977-78 Celtic v Hearts 18,940 Hampden
1980-81 Celtic v Dundee United 19,700 Celtic Park
1980-81 Dundee United v Celtic 14,517 Tannadice
1981-82 St Mirren v Rangers 15,113 Love Street
1982-83 Hearts v Rangers 18,893 Tynecastle
1982-83 Celtic v Dundee United 19,149 Celtic Park
1982-83 Dundee United v Celtic 15,522 Tannadice
1983-84 Dundee United v Rangers 14,569 Tannadice
1984-85 Rangers v Meadowbank Thistle 13,184 Ibrox
1984-85 Meadowbank Thistle v Rangers 3,451 Tynecastle
1985-86 Hibernian v Rangers 17,916 Easter Road
1996-97 Rangers v Dunfermline 16,791 Celtic Park
2002-03 Celtic v Dundee United 18,856 Hampden


Non-OF League Cup Semi-Finals below 10,000

1973-74 Dundee v Kilmarnock 4,682 Hampden
1979-80 Dundee United v Hamilton 8,000 East End Park
1980-81 Ayr United v Dundee 6,801 Somerset Park
1980-81 Dundee v Ayr United 9,438 Dens Park
1994-95 Raith Rovers v Airdrieonians 7,260 McDiarmid Park
1995-96 Dundee v Airdrieonians 8,930 McDiarmid Park
2000-01 Kilmarnock v St Mirren 9,213 Hampden
2003-04 Livingston v Dundee 7,231 Easter Road
2005-06 Dunfermline v Livingston 4,630 Easter Road

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Re: Broadfoots latest

Post by lbb » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:07 am

kiwiscot wrote:This mornings edition has him saying that the league cup semi finals are heading for a record low attendence as Celtic/Dundee Utd so far have only sold 15000 briefs and Falkirk/Rangers 20000.
I'm surprised at the Celtic-Dundee United sales, although it is live on TV which was always going to affect it, but is 20,000 for Falkirk v Rangers really that incredible? What should it be? 100,000 at the Maracana? If Rangers win at Pittodrie and go top, and perhaps even stay there, you'll probably see quite a shift over the next week and it might touch 30,000 by kick-off. That would be more than healthy.

Never mind the League Cup, I recall some Scottish Cup semi-finals that have appeared as though they've been played on the moon. An Aberdeen-Dundee United semi-final replay from 1994 which appeared to be played behind closed doors at Hampden springs to mind. The SFA/SFL's insistence on always using Hampden is part of the problem here.

Broadfoot can't be that young and stupid, can he?

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Post by lbb » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:11 pm

The error is repeated by Broadfoot's Newsquest colleague, Alison McConnell -

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/dis ... 85.0.0.php

'The Scottish Football League have discussed plans for an emergency marketing campaign, but are braced for the lowest-ever semi-final attendances.'

Stick the kettle on, love, eh?

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Re: Broadfoots latest

Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:02 pm

lbb wrote:Never mind the League Cup, I recall some Scottish Cup semi-finals that have appeared as though they've been played on the moon. An Aberdeen-Dundee United semi-final replay from 1994 which appeared to be played behind closed doors at Hampden springs to mind. The SFA/SFL's insistence on always using Hampden is part of the problem here.
Obviously the Scottish Cup draws bigger crowds than the League Cup. On the same basis as above (-20,000 for the OF & -10,000 for others) there have been far fewer low attendance semi-finals. Since the introduction of neutral venues in 1912 Celtic have never played to a sub-20,000 SF gate and Rangers have done so just twice - in the same tie.

1982 Rangers v Forfar Athletic 15,528 Hampden
1982 Rangers v Forfar Athletic 11,756 Hampden (Replay)

Non-OF gates below 10,000 are also rare:

1968 Dunfermline v St Johnstone 9,845 Tynecastle (Replay)
1979 Hibernian v Aberdeen 9,384 Hampden
1997 Kilmarnock v Dundee United 9,265 Easter Road (Replay)
2006 Dunfermline v Hibernian 8,536 Hampden (Replay)

You'll note that three of these were replays (now abolished) and all were midweek. The 1997 and 2006 games were televised live. The 1968 & 1979 games show the futility of always relying on Hampden. Bear in mind though that clubs themselves often want the national stadium for semi-finals for two major reasons - it gets them used to the pitch should they return for the Final and it invariably creates more of a sense of occasion for supporters than a trek to a club ground they already visit twice a season on average.
lbb wrote:Broadfoot can't be that young and stupid, can he?
I don't think he's that young.

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Re: Broadfoots latest

Post by lbb » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:39 pm

scottish wrote: 1982 Rangers v Forfar Athletic 15,528 Hampden
1982 Rangers v Forfar Athletic 11,756 Hampden (Replay)
Stay-away Forfar fans by the looks of it. :evil:
scottish wrote:Bear in mind though that clubs themselves often want the national stadium for semi-finals for two major reasons - it gets them used to the pitch should they return for the Final and it invariably creates more of a sense of occasion for supporters than a trek to a club ground they already visit twice a season on average.
That's the excuse you often hear but I just wonder how much of a sense of occasion you get in a, sometimes, half-empty stadium. I realise not many clubs get to Hampden but it should always be a reward for finalists only, in my book. I accept most clubs, and the SFA, don't see it that way.
scottish wrote:I don't think he's that young.
Thought he was in this 30's. Is that not young anymore?

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Re: Broadfoots latest

Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:37 pm

lbb wrote:Stay-away Forfar fans by the looks of it. :evil:
Might actually be some truth in that. Amazingly the replay was the third time in four years Forfar had faced Rangers in a Hampden semi.
lbb wrote:That's the excuse you often hear but I just wonder how much of a sense of occasion you get in a, sometimes, half-empty stadium. I realise not many clubs get to Hampden but it should always be a reward for finalists only, in my book. I accept most clubs, and the SFA, don't see it that way.
I think the pass was sold a long time ago. With live TV coverage and semis played on different dates with no replays involved - so no more stupid decisions like sending Dunfermline and St Johnstone down to Glasgow on a Wednesday night - it's much easier to play both at one venue. Same thing has happened with the new Wembley. The other problem is capacity. No football ground in Scotland can hold 20,000 outside Glasgow and Aberdeen. Pittodrie would be a suitable venue for very few potential semis (Dundee v ICT springs to mind among recent games) so if you're going to play in Glasgow it might as well be Hampden rather than the two other big grounds.
lbb wrote:Thought he was in this 30's. Is that not young anymore
The intent was to focus on the second part of your question by nature of omission. Ach, I'm too subtle.

I've no idea of his age other than to say that when I first came across him about seven or eight years ago I did think that any electric razors he might receive for Xmas would be staying in their boxes for a few years.

I'm too old to know what young is anymore. Though I do know that middle-aged is anyone five years older than I am.

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Re: Broadfoots latest

Post by lbb » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:19 pm

scottish wrote: Might actually be some truth in that. Amazingly the replay was the third time in four years Forfar had faced Rangers in a Hampden semi.
Hence the 'God Bless The Pope And Forfar' graffiti at Celtic Park in Bill Murray's book.
scottish wrote:I think the pass was sold a long time ago. With live TV coverage and semis played on different dates with no replays involved - so no more stupid decisions like sending Dunfermline and St Johnstone down to Glasgow on a Wednesday night - it's much easier to play both at one venue. Same thing has happened with the new Wembley. The other problem is capacity. No football ground in Scotland can hold 20,000 outside Glasgow and Aberdeen. Pittodrie would be a suitable venue for very few potential semis (Dundee v ICT springs to mind among recent games) so if you're going to play in Glasgow it might as well be Hampden rather than the two other big grounds.
The capacity issue always seems to suggest that we don't like anyone missing out whereas I'd much prefer if they did so if it meant the ground was full. I'm weird like that I suppose. I don't see the need to try and accommodate everyone. Or for the Old Firm to always play in Glasgow.

I was at the 1996 semi-final against Dunfermline that's mentioned above. I bought my ticket at Ibrox the weekend prior and my friend bought his before kick-off from a portakabin outside the ground. He found himself in splendid isolation in the Lisbon Lions stand whilst I was amongst the hustle and bustle of the real support in the North Stand. It was comical. The game could have been played at Tynecastle or Easter Road just as easily and with a better atmosphere. If that meant some people couldn't get in then, er, tough. The clubs would never buy it though.
scottish wrote:The intent was to focus on the second part of your question by nature of omission. Ach, I'm too subtle.
:oops: Dreadful error.

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