Broadfoot's latest

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LEATHERSTOCKING
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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:43 pm

All eminently sensible and has about as much chance of coming about as my wife winning the Champions League(why isn`t there an apostrophy in "Champions League"?). To imagine how the rest of the World perceives the Scottish football scene, while our tartan press orgasms for the last 3 days on Celtic`s Scottish Cup fate, the British "nationals" have not one word about it today. Neil who? Where have McDermott, Lawwell & that "socialist", blow hard, "hardman" Reid been hiding since quarter past two on Saturday. On the other hand, who cares? If they had any sense, they`d install Billy Connolly as manager @ Porkheid; he`s a "Celtic man" and at least he`d give us all a laugh. His press interviews would be a riot and imagine his side marching onto the field to the strains of the theme tune to The Archers.

Gorgiewave
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Post by Gorgiewave » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:51 pm

LEATHERSTOCKING wrote:All eminently sensible and has about as much chance of coming about as my wife winning the Champions League(why isn`t there an apostrophy in "Champions League"?). To imagine how the rest of the World perceives the Scottish football scene, while our tartan press orgasms for the last 3 days on Celtic`s Scottish Cup fate, the British "nationals" have not one word about it today. Neil who? Where have McDermott, Lawwell & that "socialist", blow hard, "hardman" Reid been hiding since quarter past two on Saturday. On the other hand, who cares? If they had any sense, they`d install Billy Connolly as manager @ Porkheid; he`s a "Celtic man" and at least he`d give us all a laugh. His press interviews would be a riot and imagine his side marching onto the field to the strains of the theme tune to The Archers.
There should be an apostrophe in Champions' League, but no apostrophy.
It seems that many football journalists are simply not interested in Scottish football.
"He took about half an hour to do it, but he did it!"

lbb
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Post by lbb » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:51 pm

I'm a fan of the pyramid system in principle. I think, however, the practicalities of it have been discussed on here before by wiser folk than me. The SFL wasn't bombarded with applications after the demise of Gretna and I wonder how desperate some Ayrshire junior clubs would be to travel to the Highlands, for example. It would great to have such a system as it would allow greater flow, more fresh air in the leagues but I don't know if it will ever happen.

I wouldn't bother with play-offs. It's an import from the bigger English leagues but without the benefits. The Championship used to have 3 promotion places; now it has 2 with 4 play-off places thus expanding the promotion interest to 6 teams. The Scottish First Division used to have 2 promotion places; now it has 1 with any mooted play-off only including the 2nd placed team. If we're going to have play-offs, why not a straight copy of the English system? Play-offs involving 2nd to 5th in the First Division. Two down from the SPL automatically.

I like the feeder system, too, but I also can't see that ever taking off.

I'd re-introduce the winter break from Christmas to start of February. In an ideal world, I'd have summer football but don't think it will happen. I'd keep the split. I like it. It has in-built iniquities, of course, but it's quirky and it does help create drama by forcing rivals to meet in the final weeks of the season. Would the likes of St. Mirren rather go to Celtic Park or Ibrox on the last day of the season needing to win to stay in the SPL? Or would they rather play Falkirk or Kilmarnock or Aberdeen? The latter, I'd have thought.

I'd also introduce squad size limits and some rule about homegrown players in the first XI.

Skyline Drifter
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Post by Skyline Drifter » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:26 pm

lbb wrote:I'm a fan of the pyramid system in principle. I think, however, the practicalities of it have been discussed on here before by wiser folk than me. The SFL wasn't bombarded with applications after the demise of Gretna and I wonder how desperate some Ayrshire junior clubs would be to travel to the Highlands, for example. It would great to have such a system as it would allow greater flow, more fresh air in the leagues but I don't know if it will ever happen.

I wouldn't bother with play-offs. It's an import from the bigger English leagues but without the benefits. The Championship used to have 3 promotion places; now it has 2 with 4 play-off places thus expanding the promotion interest to 6 teams. The Scottish First Division used to have 2 promotion places; now it has 1 with any mooted play-off only including the 2nd placed team. If we're going to have play-offs, why not a straight copy of the English system? Play-offs involving 2nd to 5th in the First Division. Two down from the SPL automatically.

I like the feeder system, too, but I also can't see that ever taking off.

I'd re-introduce the winter break from Christmas to start of February. In an ideal world, I'd have summer football but don't think it will happen. I'd keep the split. I like it. It has in-built iniquities, of course, but it's quirky and it does help create drama by forcing rivals to meet in the final weeks of the season. Would the likes of St. Mirren rather go to Celtic Park or Ibrox on the last day of the season needing to win to stay in the SPL? Or would they rather play Falkirk or Kilmarnock or Aberdeen? The latter, I'd have thought.

I'd also introduce squad size limits and some rule about homegrown players in the first XI.
Broadly agree with the top part of that.

Likewise I'd like to see a pyramid system and, whilst I don't know enough about the Juniors to understand what exactly is a different about them, I'd like to see them join the party. It seems ridiculous to have a separate professional organisation to me. However, like you I don't know that there is enough evidence that the Juniors actually want to join the party and if they don't then they don't.

Playoffs are a difficult one. I agree that involving clubs from the division above is wrong. The English did that for a year or two and quickly abandoned it. If you are down you should be down, no second chances. However, the problem is that if you run right down to 5th in a ten team league then you get some very average sides indeed being presented with a chance to peak for a fortnight in a year and win promotion. It's also perfectly likely that in the second division in particular you could have clubs going into their final game potentially able to be both promoted and relegated depending on their result. That's plain stupid. Playoffs work well in England because the top 6 (or 7 in League 2) of a 24 team league are playing for something. For the top five in a 10 team league to be doing so here is excessive. I'd like to see bigger divisions to be honest and then worry about playoffs to keep things interesting for those in mid-table.

I do think there should be a route, however it be arrived at, for two first division sides to be promoted and two to come down from the SPL. It's a virtual closed shop at the moment. Of course I'm not exactly unbiased in that opinion.

Personally I don't like the idea of SPL reserve sides in the SFL. It would merely serve to prevent SFL players actually achieving success in an individual season. If a "too good" side is artificially maintained in a lower division because they aren't allowed promotion then they'll simply win all the time which would be pretty demotivating for everyone else. If the OF or others want their players to get experience in the lower divisions they should send them on loan as indeed they do now (Jordan McMillan has gained a lot from his spell with us I'd say).

I definitely don't want summer football and I'm not in favour of a winter break. It's a hot topic because we happen to have had an awful winter this year. In the previous 4 or 5 years there's been little problem. If we're having fixture chaos year after year we need to look at such options. As we stand we need to write this year off as a quirk and get on with it. However, this is always less of an issue in the SPL. Frankly if SPL clubs want a split then that's up to them. I don't much care one way or the other if they do. Indeed it's potentially advantageous to us if they do. Perhaps local fans of the Big two in particular will be tempted along to their local side whilst the SPL sits around.

I don't have especially strong views about the SPL split since it doesn't affect me at all. I do think the argument posted by some that it is somehow a laughing stock because the end result sees the team in 7th get more points than the team in 6th is ridiculous. If you are too stupid to understand how that comes about then you shouldn't be let out in public. It's equivalent to suggesting that Hibs shouldn't get a European place because Inverness will end up with more points than them!

LEATHERSTOCKING
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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:33 pm

My grammar is pretty fair but the spelling atroshus. There was a lovely example in today`s Herald Diary where the sign shown read "creme egg`s" with applause for the correct grave over the "e" but the inability to spell "eggs"!

LEATHERSTOCKING
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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:45 pm

This season, Queen`s Park have lost 8 home games but thanks to a recent run of 6 aways unbeaten(including 5 straight wins) they are in a 3rd Division play-off place which with the equality of everyone bar Livingston, Elgin & Montrose they could well maintain until the end of the season but such levelness could equally see them finish 8th. No-one, however, is going to turn up his nose @ the chance of promotion. You play the system; just as Motherwell should stop whining about their post split fixtures - they knew what the story was back in August.

HibeeJibee
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Post by HibeeJibee » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Just to pick up on the pyramid point - yes hardly any clubs applied to be a replacement for Gretna. But that is because they had 3 weeks to put in a paper application - to join the league 4 weeks after the vote. They had to have the ground, finance, and willpower in place - ready to jump as soon a club in the SFL went bust, which happens rarely. So it's no fair measure.

Pyramids work in every other European nation = can work here. A certain team reached the Scottish Cup Final on Saturday. In the early 1990s they were a middling HFL outfit, amateur, from a town of 5,000 people. Nought more requires to be said IMO. There could be plenty more Ross County's out there... if only they were given a chance and opportunity to fulfil their potential. A pyramid might also allow troubled clubs (Cowdenbeath etc) to fall down to a sustainable level, rather than having to survive or go bust...

Finally there is the issue of the Juniors. In England 5,000 clubs play in the pyramid... but no more than a few dozen sides aspire to play in League 2. For the rest the pyramid is about their own levels. Exactly the same could happen here, by uniting senior non-leaguers/Juniors/Amateur/Welfarers...

... but this is Scotland = I suspect nothing will change at all any time soon.

lbb
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Post by lbb » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:15 pm

Skyline Drifter wrote: However, the problem is that if you run right down to 5th in a ten team league then you get some very average sides indeed being presented with a chance to peak for a fortnight in a year and win promotion. It's also perfectly likely that in the second division in particular you could have clubs going into their final game potentially able to be both promoted and relegated depending on their result. That's plain stupid.
This is a fair point. You're right - it's one thing being 5th in a 10 team league and 5th in a 24 team league.

I do think a playoff between an SPL team and a First Division runner-up is unneccessary. It seems, and I can't put my finger on exactly why, unfairly weighted in favour of the SPL club which will invariably be the bigger of the two with more resources, better squad, etc. I'm thinking of when Aberdeen were in it. I know Dundee United defeated Partick Thistle but they were an SPL club in all but name. Think, too, of how closely United came to spending another year in the First Division and what that would have meant for them.

The English set-up only really disadvantages the 3rd placed side who might once have argued that they would have achieved automatic promotion. So long has passed since the play-off system was introduced down there that I don't think that argument gets much of an airing nowadays. I also have a vague theory that survival is a stronger instinct - fighting to keep what you have rather than something you might never have had.

I take the point about a direct copy of the English system but we need something along those lines rather than SFL v SPL.
Skyline Drifter wrote:If the OF or others want their players to get experience in the lower divisions they should send them on loan as indeed they do now (Jordan McMillan has gained a lot from his spell with us I'd say).
This is true to an extent. I would be interested to know how many requests they actually get.
Skyline Drifter wrote:I definitely don't want summer football and I'm not in favour of a winter break. It's a hot topic because we happen to have had an awful winter this year. In the previous 4 or 5 years there's been little problem.
It's not really because of pitches that I advocate it. I'm of the opinion that Fir Park would still resemble a skin donor's bum if no football was played on it for 3 years. I just consider it a useful break for supporters and players. In the rare instances that we have clubs in Europe after Christmas, or the international team has qualifying matches in March/April, then I think it is useful to have players who have been refreshed rather than dead on their feet. And it isn't much fun for supporters in some of these conditions. Some of the games I attended in January were so cold I wouldn't have wished it on Neil Lennon.

the hibLOG
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Post by the hibLOG » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:11 am

Hey, fascinating as this discussion is it's well off the topic of what a dickhead Darryl Broadfoot is (and his sub-editors). If I wanted to read a sensible analysis of the structure of Scottish football I'd... um, go to another thread.

More media idiocy, please.
Fraser

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Post by Snuff » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:43 am

hibLOG - I appreciate you're a long way from home, but wee "Boyne Band" as DB is known to some of his media chums has now moved on from operating at the coal face of football writing.

Since he is now the SFA's Head of Media, he doesn't have to bother with sub-editors - cos he's now - heaven help us - Le Grand Fromage in the SFA's Media Department.

WE ought perhaps ask David to re-name this thread:

What about 'Chick Young's Latest' or does that lack gravitas?
Snuff

the hibLOG
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Post by the hibLOG » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:24 am

Snuff wrote:hibLOG - I appreciate you're a long way from home, but wee "Boyne Band" as DB is known to some of his media chums has now moved on from operating at the coal face of football writing.

Since he is now the SFA's Head of Media, he doesn't have to bother with sub-editors - cos he's now - heaven help us - Le Grand Fromage in the SFA's Media Department.

WE ought perhaps ask David to re-name this thread:

What about 'Chick Young's Latest' or does that lack gravitas?
Oh I knew all that about DB. I think this thread should retain its name in honour of his inspirational dickheadery. And his current position will most certainly not prevent him from supplying the media with all manner of scandalously inaccurate tosh. Just thought we'd gone off topic a bit there.
Fraser

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Post by macjackb » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:09 pm

Going back to reconstruction, I'm one of the guilty many who regarded the original reconstruction of 75/6 as an outstanding success, when in truth what we were witnessing was all about the coincidental rise of Ferguson and McLean. It seems to me that with the continuing plummeting of standards within the game, its long term competitive failure at the very top and its gradual demise as a paying spectator sport, we have bugger all to lose by reverting to a set-up where the parties play each other two times a season. For all its faults, at least it would remove a small part of the cynicism and boredom of the current situation where the next game with tomorrow's opponents is only ever a few weeks away. A few extra spectators might even be tempted along to a visit to an away ground that will only be seen once this season. Twice-a-season is the only part of the old set-up that I'd want to see again though; otherwise, for all that no one wishes ill on clubs that have struggled and done their best in the Scottish League for a hundred years or more, it's both indefensible and nonsensical to have no on-the-park and achievement-based link between the league and the non-leagues.

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