ENGLISH GOALIES

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LEATHERSTOCKING
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ENGLISH GOALIES

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:42 am

In the moments before half time, the commentator`s assistant on Saturday assured viewers that the poor, unfortunate Robert Green would soon be in the dressing room receiving the ministrations of goalkeeping coach Ray Clemence. Would that be the same Ray Clemence who received a Dalglish trundler with open arms in 1976? Proud "Scot", Bob Wilson(2 caps) also sympathised with Green on TV. I well recall "Jock" Wilson allowing a Steve Heighway shot in @ his near post in 1971`s English Cup Final. Regarding Frank Haffey being hounded out of the country because of constant jibes about 9-3 in 1961(see this morning`s Glasgow Herald), I don`t think this is quite the case. He played on @ Celtic for nearly 2 & a half years before, I think, going South THEN emigrating to Australia & a nightclub career. He was hardly the character to let such a little matter affect him, in fact, I think he revelled in the "fame". He was called up to take a penalty vs. Airdrie in 1963 with Celts winning 9-0 & had his kick saved! He also saved a Bobby Charlton penalty @ Hampden in 1960 then threw the ball into the net in disgust when the Hungarian referee ordered the kick to be retaken. Charlton sent the retake wide of the post!

Snuff
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English goalies

Post by Snuff » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:32 am

English goalkeepers, like English international players in any position are by-and-large over-rated by their myopic media.

If the 20 first-choice goalkeepers in the EPL were to be rated by some independent body - there would be few if any English keepers in the top ten (perhaps only Joe Hart on his 2009-10 form for Birmingham).

In terms of currently-active goalkeepers from the British Isles, Craig Gordon, Shay Given and Allan McGregor are all surely better than even Hart - but, they're not English so in the eyes of the English they are not top-flight.

It's the same in any sport, a Scot, Irishman or Welshman has to be better than the best Englishman fellow-competitor to be judged his equal, or, like Andy Murray, so far ahead of the English competition as to end all arguments - it was ever thus.

Bobby Moore was a good player for instance, but he lacked pace, he couldn't head the ball for toffee and was also incredibly lucky. Had Duncan Edwards not perished at Munich and carried on as he had started, he and not Moore would have led England in 1966.

BTW Leatherstocking: Bob Wilson is a damned sight more Scottish than some guys we've capped of late. As he wrote in his excellent autobiography: he was the first member of his family NOT to have been born and raised in Scotland. Both parents, all four grand-parents, each of his eight great-grand-parents and so forth were Scottish-born and raised.

Very nice guy too.
Snuff

LEATHERSTOCKING
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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:11 am

I don`t doubt for a minute Bob Wilson`s niceness(& Scottishness) but he only got 2 caps @ a time when Scottish goalies being capped were Jim Cruickshank, Ally Hunter & Bobby Clark - all, I`d say, better than him. The best two I saw were probably Bill Brown & Andy Goram with Jim Leighton & Craig Gordon not far behind. Tommy Younger was just before my time and Jack Harkness & Jimmy Cowan long before my time!

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Post by Scottish » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:51 pm

Joe Hart is - IMHO - far and away the best English goalkeeper right now. In fact I'd go as far as to say he is the ONLY English-qualified keeper worthy of international selection. And he couldn't dislodge Shay Given so spent the season on loan at Birmingham. Both James & Green's failures are well-documented and the fact that both play for two of the bottom four in the Premiership speaks volumes.

James wasn't considered good enough in his early 30s to replace David Seaman and England therefore persevered with Seaman long after he should have retired. Green went six years between first and second caps.

The decline of English goalkeeping has been obvious for many years now. Clubs have taken the easy route of importing foreign keepers who, by and large, don't cost the same in fees or wages as other imported players.

This should have been obvious to Capello, coming, as he does, from a country where good goalkeeping has always been highly prized. Yet he has used five keepers in just over twenty games as England manager. And that's not counting the inclusion in squads of Paul Robinson - whose catalogue of errors makes Green look like the love child of Banks & Yashin.

Yet he's given Hart just 135 minutes of international action with 90 of those in the past three weeks v Mexico and Japan and the other 45 away to Trinidad. Hardly the best preparation for a World Cup.

Of course lack of action at top international level can be tempered by club experience. Victor Valdes has never played for Spain but it is safe to say that his Champions League pedigree would come to the fore should he be called on. On loan at Brum - while a decent enough side - hardly compares.

Still, this is what the land of Banks, Shilton, Clemence, Woods & Seaman has been reduced to. And they have only themselves to blame.

macjackb
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English goalies

Post by macjackb » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:44 pm

Just a few further thoughts regarding Oor Bob Wilson. While I've no reason to doubt his personal niceness, he's always in my view been a desperately poor presenter in a sea of poverty. The nadir was one of ITV's laughable preview progs ahead of Euro 96, a studio discussion with experts and a studio audience comprising nationals of the competing nations, compered by our man. After half the show had been devoted to the three lions, it was time to tick the boxes, starting with our boys. So Bob started with a fairly innocuous question for the Scots fans to respond to. Unfortunately, the guy who got the microphone hadn't read the script, and began threatening to take the question seriously, including comments to the effect that there might just be one or two shortcomings in the Scots team that could just possibly do with discussing. Fidgeting in that way an impatient Dad does when the sprog he's told to eat his greens asks why, Bob snapped back, pointing out with his trademark sharpness that this was hardly the Braveheart spirit. That put us in our place!

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