Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select etc

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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:48 pm

On 11th October 1941 the only Inter-League match held during WWII was held at Blackpool - 3-2 in favour of the Football League. However... were they playing the Scottish League or the Southern League? Obviously the SFL was closed-up for the duration by then.

On page 251 of Bob Crampsey's SFL Centenary history for example, he says "a Southern League side" in the text / but in listing the team in the next paragraph (top of page 252) he says "SCOTTISH LEAGUE".

Anyone know the official billing?

If it was the Southern League, I presume this is the only representative fixture they ever played?
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:03 pm

Also another slight query I've found. On (coincidentally, in terms of date + month) 11th October 1955, the Scottish League travelled to Copenhagen. However... who exactly did they play? According to Crampsey's book it was 'Danish Combination'... London Hearts says 'Danish Football Combination'... but, having just got ScottishFA's excellent Scotland International Programme Guide it says 'Staevnet (Select)' - which was an XI of Copenhagen teams which played in the early Fairs Cup tournaments. Basically the Kobenhavn FA's select XI. See links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A6vnet
http://www.rsssf.com/ec/ec195758det.html#fc

Was it a Danish League/FA selection, Staevnet with players from outside Copenhagen added, or Staevnet proper?

(I note Staevnet played their first Fairs Cup tie only a few weeks later... on Christmas Day 1955 infact, going down 6-2 to Barcelona in the Nou Camp... so was it a warm-up for that?).
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby Scottish » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:09 pm

The Herald talks about 'Scotland' and the 'Scottish League' but The Scotsman refers to the 'Scottish Southern League' throughout and in the line-ups on London Hearts
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:22 pm

Cheers, I'd forgotten to look to see it it was on London Hearts. One naturally assumes it was the Southern League, by merit of the Scottish League having gone into hibernation the best part of 18 months before. And further... since if it had been a 'Scottish League' side, you'd have expected a token individual from the North-East League to be included (an Aberdeen man most obviously).

Andy Mitchell's book's update says there was a program. Anyone got a copy, able to confirm the team name?
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby Scottish » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:27 pm

HibeeJibee wrote:
Andy Mitchell's book's update says there was a program. Anyone got a copy, able to confirm the team name?


Try Ebay. Not to buy because presumably it would be hideously expensive, just to sneak a look at the cover.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby ScottishFA » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:45 pm

The programme for the 1941 game doesn't really help - not surprising as it was produced locally in Blackpool. The cover states:
International League Match, England v Scotland. Inside it just refers to a 'league international'.

Interesting that there were two Scots in the English side: Tommy Pearson at Newcastle, and Bob Pryde of Blackburn. Scotland selected Douglas Wallace of Clyde, a South African. The programme has Jimmy Carabine of Third Lanark printed, and he was replaced by McGurk

Moving on to 1955, the programme cover (in Danish) says: 'Staevnet contra The Scottish League' although the cover would have provoked a diplomatic stooshie in modern times as it showed a Union Jack for the visitors.

Staevnet is a Danish word meaning roughly 'selection' or 'meeting', so in a football context we would call it a select. The welcome messages, helpfully, are in England and Danish, and the home team is called the Copenhagen Combination. Later on in the programme, there is a useful English article which says: "The leading first division club is Danish champion of the year, and although Copehhagen has but 11 clubs, the title, up to 1953, has always been won by a team from Copenhagen, and always of a club from The Copenhagen-Combination, which at the presents consists of 7 clubs, of which only one is playing in Second Division." So in effect Staevnet is the name given to the select team representing the Copenhagen Combination.

The game inaugurated the floodlights at the Idraetsparken, by the way.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:04 pm

That's wonderful, cheers. I just picked-up your book and spotted the program pictured on the back cover... not only is the Union Jack shown, but one notes the Staevnet badge is effectively the English FA logo with STAEVNET + a crown above!! Still, Sandeman scotch whisky ad compensates...

So in effect, it was the Scottish League XI v Copenhagen FA XI (in Scottish parlance)?


Going by Wikipedia, Staevnet's membership was:
B 93 (1904)
KB (1904)
AB (1912)
B 1903 (1912)
Frem (1912)
Fremad Amager (1949)
ØB (1949)

Køge (1955)
Skovshoved (1955)
Hvidovre (1964)
Kastrup (1976)

so presumably those in bold were the 7 members at the time of the game.

Also going by Wikipedia, there was a rival involving different clubs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A6vnet

Most of the matches played by Stævnet were exhibition matches either against its Danish competitor Alliancen

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliancen

Alliancen (Danish for the alliance) were a Danish association football representative team founded in 1940 by Fremad Amager, HIK, KFUM, B1908 and ØB.

Køge, Brønshøj, Skovshoved IF, Vanløse, Næstved and Esbjerg all joined later.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 pm

Did the SFL only ever play the HFL once (Mon 19th Apr 1976, 1-1 @ Elgin)... I've got a scribbled note that someone on here suggested a fixture in 1980-81, and perhaps at other times too?
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby prorege » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:22 am

The Highland League played the Scotland Semi Pro Select in 80/1 at Kingsmills. Date was 11/5/81.

Highland League played Scotland XI, managed by Ally Maceod, in April 78. 2-2 draw. Ray Mackintosh and Billy Urquhart scored for the HL. Scotland team included Davie Provan, Frank McGarvey etc. If I remember correctly it was mainly players who were in the World Cup 40.

There was a game in the late 80s / early 90s sometime, in Inverness, that was either Highland League v Scotland XI, or v Scottish League. I'm sure that was for the Centenary or Anniversary of something or other.

More recently I think there was a similar game as a benefit match for a referee who had a stroke.

The Scottish 2nd XI FA also played the Highland League in Inverness in the late 70s or early 80s.

Highland League played the Scottish Junior FA several times in the late 70s / early 80s - certainly 23/3/80 at Elgin, and around the same time at Kirriemuir.

The HL also played the North Juniors in 79/80, winning 4-0 at Forest Park.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby Snuff » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:51 pm

One game I have long sought details of is the Scotland v "South Africa" Olympic Games fund-raising game at Ibrox in season 1955-56, a match remembered for the Rangers' fans in the crowd cheering-on the green-shirted Saffers, since their team included Johnny Hubbard and Don Kitchenbrand.

I am sure someone on this forum has all the relevant information, date, crowd, teams, scorers etc - or can tell me where to look.

Cheers
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby Scottish » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:54 pm

prorege wrote: There was a game in the late 80s / early 90s sometime, in Inverness, that was either Highland League v Scotland XI, or v Scottish League. I'm sure that was for the Centenary or Anniversary of something or other.


May 22nd 1993 at Telford Street. Highland League 0 Scotland Under-21s 3

A week earlier the Highland League had drawn 2-2 with the England semi-professional side at Borough Briggs. These were both centenary matches.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby Scottish » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:08 pm

Snuff wrote:One game I have long sought details of is the Scotland v "South Africa" Olympic Games fund-raising game at Ibrox in season 1955-56, a match remembered for the Rangers' fans in the crowd cheering-on the green-shirted Saffers, since their team included Johnny Hubbard and Don Kitchenbrand.

I am sure someone on this forum has all the relevant information, date, crowd, teams, scorers etc - or can tell me where to look.

Cheers


This was on Monday March 12th 1956, a day better known for the arrival of yours truly into this world.

Scotland XI 2 (Reilly, Collins)
Anglo-South African XI 1 (Hubbard pen)

Scotland XI: Younger (Hibs), Parker, Rae (both Falkirk), Evans (Celtic), Malloy (Cardiff), Glen (Aberdeen), Smith (Hibs), McMillan (Airdrie), Reilly (Hibs), Collins (Celtic), Mitchell (Newcastle)

Anglo-South African XI: Rudham (Liverpool), O'Linn, Hewie (both Charlton), Purdon (Sunderland), Neilson (Bury), Chamberlain (Charlton), Davies (Luton), Leary (Charlton), Kichenbrand (Rangers), Foreman (Brighton), Hubbard (Rangers)

Ref: J Mowat (Burnside)

Match Report on page four bearing out what you say about Rangers supporters. Of course they had two players in the away team and none in the Scotland XI.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby sureitsza » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:44 pm

4 April 1981
Muirton Park, Perth
Scottish Junior X1 1-1 Highland League
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby gogsy1968 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:06 pm

sureitsza wrote:4 April 1981
Muirton Park, Perth
Scottish Junior X1 1-1 Highland League


There was at least three other games in this series

23rd March 1980 Highland Legue Select 3-0 Scottish Junior FA at Elgin
1982 Highland League Select 1-0 Scottish Juniors at Buckie
24th April 1983 Scottish Junior Select ?-? Highland League at Kirriemuir
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby Snuff » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:42 pm

David, thanks for the information on the Scotland v South Africa game. I followed your link to the Herald archive and read the report, very interesting. I liked the line about John Hewie "reducing (Gordon) Smith to the level of an ordinary player" - Hewie definitely played his way into the Scotland team that night then. While Cardiff's Danny Malloy never did become what he was being groomed to be - George Young's successor as Scotland cdentre half.
Some interesting stuff elsewhere on the Herald page, Bert McCann named at centre forward in the Scottish Amateur XI, and while Archie Glen of Aberdeen was in the Scotland team against the South Africans, his younger brother Alec was named in the reserve Scottish Amateur XI, alongside Bob Crampsey's brother Frank, while John Valentine was named at centre half in the Amateur side.

Nice wee line in the cricket about bad language by players in a match between Pakistan and the MCC. And there was me thinking the Australians invented "sledging" about 30 years later. A similar incident today and questions would be being asked in the House and we'd be on terrorist alert.
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