Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select etc

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Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select etc

Postby HibeeJibee » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:07 pm

I was on London Hearts earlier, and I notice the front page carrying a photo of a Hearts v Scotland XI program from 1958:

Image


An excellent database of Scottish League Select matches exists on the LondonHearts website (compiled by David Ross).
http://www.londonhearts.com/scotland/scotland.htm

Wikipedia has a list of what purports to be all the Scotland B results (1952-1957, then none until 1987):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_B ... tball_team

And I recently bought Tommy Malcolm's excellent book on Glasgow v Sheffield.


However... can anyone highlight online or printed material listing the matches since WWII by:
* Scotland XI (who sometimes played v Scottish League XI's in trials games IIRC? v The Army? and at the SFL centenary)
* Scotland U-23?
* Scottish League B Division Select (didn't they have a game abandoned in Italy?)
* Edinburgh Select
* Glasgow Select, other than v Sheffield / in Glasgow Charity Cup?

(Or any other Selects, for that matter... was there ever a Dundee Select post-war, for example?).


Obviously some will count as 'friendlies' in most people's eyes, especially games like "City Select v English Club" or "Scottish Club v Scotland XI".

However, others are more competitive affairs... especially matches between 2 representative teams (especially League v League or City v City).
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby Scottish » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:58 am

'Scotland The Team' by Andrew Ward (Breedon, 1987, ISBN 0 907969 34 8) has results, dates, venues, scorers, attendances, line-ups for all U-23 games and for U-21 from 1976-Apr 1st 1987. Also an A-Z of players appearances at both levels with matches and totals.

'British and Irish Special and Intermediate Internationals' by Keith Warsop (SoccerData, 2002 ISBN 1 899468 62 5) has the same information (minus players A-Z) for pre-1872 'internationals,' B internationals, SFA tours, wartime internationals, one-offs like the Jubilee 'international' of 1935, Olympic appeal fund match of 1956 etc. Excludes U-21 but contains U-23. Covers 1870-1999. Also has details of make-up of touring parties.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby prorege » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:04 am

Keith Warsop's book available here:

http://www.soccer.mistral.co.uk/books/ints1.htm

It doesn't include the likes of Scottish Second Division Select games, Scottish Second XI FA Games (other than when they were responsible for the Under 23 side) or the Scotland Semi Pro Select (who usually played a warm-up game prior to the 4 Nations Tourament each year).
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:30 pm

Thanks gentlemen, excellent :).

I'd actually been looking around this morning and found Warsop's book on sale by Soccer Books [see link, scroll to bottom]:
http://www.soccer-books.co.uk/acatalog/ ... ks_44.html

I hadn't really thought about the Scottish Second XI FA games or the Semi-Pro games of the late 1970s + early 1980s, but these are all below the top-tier and so not as important for me. (Although it would still be interesting to see a comprehensive listing / or perhaps compile one, if one doesn't exist).


Also, on a semi-related note, does anyone know where I could get ahold of a copy of "The AFS Book of Inter-League Matches"? I've not found anything online :-(.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby ScottishFA » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:27 pm

I could modestly recommend my own Scotland International Programme Guide, which was published in 2008 and is available on ebay for a fiver.

It has complete listings (date, venue and score) for Scotland matches at A, B, League, Unofficial, U23, U21, Amateur, Women, Sem-Pro and Youth.

Here, for example, is the listing of Unofficial internationals since WW2, although as this is cut and pasted from a Word document it will probably lose its formatting here:

Wartime Matches
2.12.39 England Newcastle 1-2
24.4.40 Empire Army Tynecastle 4-1
28.4.40 Eire XI Dublin 3-2
11.5.40 England Hampden Park 1-1
8.2.41 England Newcastle 3-2
3.5.41 England Hampden Park 1-3
4.10.41 England Wembley 0-2
17.1.42 England Wembley 0-3
18.4.42 England Hampden Park 5-4
10.10.42 England Wembley 0-0
5.12.42 RAF Newcastle 0-4
17.4.43 England Hampden Park 0-4
16.10.43 England Maine Road 0-8
19.2.44 England Wembley 2-6
22.4.44 England Hampden Park 2-3
14.10.44 England Wembley 2-6
25.11.44 RAF Hillsborough 7-1
3.2.45 England Villa Park 2-3
14.4.45 England Hampden Park 1-6

10.11.45 Wales Hampden Park 2-0
17.11.45 Combined Services Hamburg 4-2
2.2.46 N Ireland Belfast 3-2
13.4.46 England Hampden Park 1-0

Bolton Disaster Fund Match
24.8.46 England Maine Road 2-2

28.5.47 Combined Services Hamburg 3-4

23.2.49 British Army Tynecastle 7-1

1949 Transatlantic Tour
25.5.49 St Louis All Stars St Louis 6-0
29.5.49 Belfast Celtic New York 0-2
30.5.49 American Soccer Lge New York 4-1
6.6.49 Kearny All Stars Kearny 3-1
8.6.49 Ontario Major Lge Toronto 2-0
9.6.49 Eastern Canada Montreal 5-2
12.6.49 Philadelphia All Stars Philadelphia 8-1
15.6.49 New England AS Fall River 3-1
19.6.49 USA National Team New York 4-0
This match is considered a full international by the USA.

3.3.52 British Army Newcastle 3-1
2.3.53 British Army Hampden Park 2-1

Jimmy Mason Testimonial
30.4.53 Sunderland Cathkin Park 5-0

18.11.53 British Army Goodison Park 3-2
16.11.54 Kilmarnock Rugby Park 2-0
22.11.54 Hibernian Easter Road 3-0
30.11.54 Falkirk Brockville 4-4
17.1.55 British Army Ibrox post
21.2.55 Scotland B Easter Road 2-3
7.12.55 British Army Shawfield 3-1
12.3.56 Anglo Sth Africa XI Ibrox 2-1
3.2.58 Scottish League Easter Road 3-2
17.2.58 Rangers Ibrox 1-1
3.3.58 Heart of Midlothian Tynecastle 2-3

World Cup warm-up
5.6.58 IFK Eskilstuna Eskilstuna 2-0

12.11.58 British Army Tynecastle 1-1
16.3.59 Scottish League Ibrox 5-6
24.5.59 Jutland Aarhus 3-3
1.2.60 Scottish League Ibrox 2-2
30.1.61 Scottish League Celtic Park 4-1
5.2.62 Scottish League Hampden Park 2-2
24.2.64 Scottish League Ibrox 3-1

John White Memorial Match
11.11.64 Tottenham Hotspur White Hart Lane 6-2

Alex Dowdells Testimonial
2.5.66 Leicester City Filbert Street 1-1

1967 World Tour
16.5.67 Israel Tel Aviv 2-1
25.5.67 Hong Kong Hong Kong 4-1
28.5.67 Australia Sydney 1-0
31.5.67 Australia Adelaide 2-1
3.6.67 Australia Melbourne 2-0
5.6.67 New Zealand XI Wellington 7-2
8.6.67 Auckland XI Auckland 4-1
10.6.67 Vancouver All Stars Vancouver 4-1
13.6.67 Canada Amateurs Winnipeg 7-2

Ibrox Disaster Fund
27.1.71 Rangers/Celtic XI Hampden Park 2-1

Alan Mullery Testimonial
22.3.76 Great Britain XI Fulham 2-3

John Greig Testimonial
16.4.78 Rangers Ibrox 0-5

19.4.78 Highland Lge Select Kingsmills, Inverness 2-2

World Cup warm-ups
30.5.86 LA Heat Los Angeles 3-0
31.5.86 Hollywood Kickers Los Angeles 4-0

Scottish League Centenary Match
18.8.90 Scottish League Hampden Park 0-1
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby ScottishFA » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:36 pm

HibeeJibee wrote:* Scottish League B Division Select (didn't they have a game abandoned in Italy?)


There were only a few Scottish League matches that did not include top division players. I think this is a complete list:

15.4.52 Irish League B Div Solitude, Belfast 6-0
30.12.74 Italian Serie B Pescara 0-0a
19.4.76 Highland League Borough Briggs 3-0
26.4.78 Italian Serie C Verona 1-1
1.11.78 Irish League Fir Park 1-1
17.3.80 League of Ireland Dalymount Park 1-2
18.3.80 Irish League Windsor Park 4-2
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:25 pm

That's superb ScottishFA, thanks... I meant to buy your program guidebook before. I've searched "Scotland International Programme Guide" in Ebay but nothing has come up - could you post a link?

EDIT: No need.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SCOTLAND-FOOTBALL ... 0466384749


If I can track-down a copy of the 'AFS Inter-League', I think I've everything covered bar City Selects (Glasgow v teams other than Sheffield / Charity Cup... plus Edinburgh, possibly Dundee). Any ideas for these City Selects?
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby Cinneide » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:29 pm

HibeeJibee wrote:I think I've everything covered bar City Selects (Glasgow v teams other than Sheffield / Charity Cup... plus Edinburgh, possibly Dundee). Any ideas for these City Selects?

I've never seen anything published for Glasgow select teams until Tommy's Sheffield book.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby ScottishFA » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:35 pm

This is a full list of the matches played to raise funds for Edinburgh Charities Day. The series began with a Hearts match against Arsenal, there was no game in 1942, and in 1943 it was a ‘Hearts Select’ including players from Hibs and some English sides.

From 1944 to 1962 an Edinburgh Select met a top English side as a curtain raiser to the season (except 1946 when it was played in June), and the final match in the series was between Hearts and Dunfermline.

2.8.41 Arsenal Tynecastle 0-1
7.8.43 RAF XI Tynecastle 3-2
5.8.44 Aston Villa Tynecastle 3-4
4.8.45 Huddersfield Town Tynecastle 4-0
8.6.46 Aston Villa Easter Road 3-3
2.8.47 Derby County Easter Road 4-5
7.8.48 Blackpool Tynecastle 1-1
6.8.49 Wolverhampton W Easter Road 2-3
5.8.50 Newcastle United Tynecastle 1-1
4.8.51 Liverpool Easter Road 1-2
2.8.52 Portsmouth Tynecastle 3-2
1.8.53 Wolverhampton W Easter Road 3-2
7.8.54 Bolton Wanderers Tynecastle 3-2
6.8.55 Newcastle United Easter Road 1-1
4.8.56 Birmingham City Tynecastle 2-1
3.8.57 Preston North End Easter Road 1-3
2.8.58 Liverpool Tynecastle 2-2
1.8.59 Newcastle United Easter Road 4-3
6.8.60 Chelsea Tynecastle 5-4
5.8.61 Burnley Easter Road 4-7
4.8.62 Burnley Tynecastle 2-4
3.8.63 Dunfermline Athletic Tynecastle 7-0
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:43 pm

Again, superb, thanks. Those games were apparently for the "Allison Trophy" going by programme covers.

There are images on the imcomprable London Hearts, of course, and also this page at Hibs programmes:
http://www.hibsprogrammes.co.uk/easterroad.html


I've also details of these:

Aug 13th 1985... Edinburgh Select XI 2-1 Bayern Munich
(I assume this was for the Festival and/or city twinning?)

A possible Edinburgh Select v Sarajevo at Meadowbank (1990s presumably) [not necessarily played by 'proper' players, of course]?
http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?1926 ... &p=2577149

And a John Cumming testimonial, Edinburgh Select v North East XI, from May 1980 [this may have been old-boys or suchlike, of course]:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source ... 4XUpCY5j_Q

And this is slightly confusing (says Edinburgh v Bolton, which was 1954, but has date as day after the Newcastle game in 1950):
http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/0 ... 0E458.html



If anyone knows of other City Select (or other) games, from any era, please do chip in.



Out of interest... does anyone know when the annual Edinburgh-Glasgow match died off? And did Edinburgh have a similar "annual test", like Glasgow-Sheffield?

What about Scottish city matches v other English cities, like Liverpool / Manchester / Birmingham / Nottingham, etc.?
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:32 am

Forfarshire did it's own bit for the Olympic Fund Appeal of 1956 (what was this, btw?) with a Dundee Select v County Select game at Dens Park:

http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/bygone/may1956/

Fundraising Football Match
Grand Football Match in aid of Olympic games fund appeal
Dundee Select (Dundee and Dundee Unitied) V County Select (Arbroath, Forfar, Montrose & Brechin)
at Den's Park on Wednesday May 9, 1956.
Usual Prices (Please note that the Season Tickets and Directors' Box Tickets are not available for this game).
Last edited by HibeeJibee on Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:38 am

Glasgow Select v The Football League, 1977:

Image

17.05.1977 3pm Silver Jubilee Appeal Match, at Hampden

Dalglish's shirt auctioned: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_ ... ID=4885556

Info r.e. shirt colouring, newspaper clipping: http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8418137/1/


Glasgow Select v Tottenham Hotspur, ????, at Hampden
http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/0 ... F549B.html

(presumably the Glasgow Charity Cup fixture, 5th August 1964).



and this tantalising but possibly erroneous piece:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 6042202625

Does anyone have any pictures or information of the 1975 game between a Glasgow Select and The English League?

This game was played to mark the eight hundredth anniversary of Glasgow's burgh charter, as granted by Archbishop Jocelyn in 1175, among many other events that year. The Glasgow team wore jerseys essentially of blue and green stripes (for obvious reasons) and also of course had essentially a blue and green team. I believe the English League won 1-0 with a goal from Trevor Cherry. And other than that I know nothing at all about it, but would like to know more. I would also very much appreciate seeing pictures of the players in those blue and green striped jerseys.
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby HibeeJibee » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:55 am

And a final bit of usefulness I've been able to wrought from Google regarding City Selects... presumably a fundraiser in the Belgian War Fund Shield vain, 1919:

http://www.converyauctions.com/BidCat/d ... &LotRef=89

Image

A 9CT GOLD AND ENAMEL 1919 MEDAL
the obverse inscribed Corporation, Belgian Committee, Senior Football Match, the reverse inscribed Bradford, An England Eleven, v. Glasgow (Select), Jan 3rd 1919, James Bauchop, with ring suspension; and an invitation from the Lord Provost to the after match dinner at the Glasgow City Chambers (2)
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby prorege » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:24 pm

I can think of a few other Select teams, although some have been more official than others:

Stirlingshire FA XI played testimonials, the most recent being in the late 70s for Gordon Simpson. They also played a one-off game in the North East of England, possibly at Whitley Bay, in the 1990s although the reason for this escapes me.

Fife Select played a benefit match against Sunderland for the Michael Colliery Disaster Fund in the late 60s, and also played the Scotland Semi Pro team in the 1980s

Dundee Select XIs have played in Testimonials at Dens and Tannadice in the 70s, if not since.

There have been lots of Inverness Select games dating from the 1920s or earlier up until the 1980s.. I remember seeing them lose 10-1 against St Johnstone at Muirton around 1978 or 1979

Morayshire Selects have also played various friendlies over the years
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Re: Scotland XI, B, U23, B Division Select, Edinburgh Select

Postby prorege » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:39 am

Another 'unusual' game:

21/10/1914
Belgian Relief Fund Match
Hamilton Accies 3 (Kelly 3) Scottish League 3 (Reid, Crone, Graham)
SL Team: Brownlie (THirds), McGregor (Celtic), McKenzie (Partick), McStay (Motherwell), Rafferty (Airdrie), Nellies (Hearts), Waugh (Motherwell), Crone (Celtic), Reid (Airdrie), Graham (Hearts), McGregor (Celtic).
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