Bare-faced lies

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Gorgiewave
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Bare-faced lies

Post by Gorgiewave » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:17 pm

Now, I know that football is just another "product", that lying is alright if it serves your pointless ends, etc., but

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25376933

46,058 at the Celtic-Hearts match today? That looked at least 15,000 too optimistic to me. Maybe 20,000. How can any team or league expect to be taken seriously as a "product", business or team if they tell lies that nobody but a blind man could possibly believe?

Tickets sold, maybe. So why not say "Tickets sold: 46,058. Attendance: 30,000. Ticket holders who preferred Christmas shopping, fundraising for the Green Brigade's appeal or still on holiday in Amsterdam: 16,058"?

Come on, it's just an insult to anybody's intelligence.

Is a lie better than nothing?
"He took about half an hour to do it, but he did it!"

Matt
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Re: Bare-faced lies

Post by Matt » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:26 am

In the same context: Being aware of the controversy concerning FOI requests, it nonetheless is amazing, what the difference for Celtic's game on 1 Jan is:

Official "attendance": 52,670
FOI figure: 26,083 (less than 50%...)

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... sponse.pdf

Scottish
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Re: Bare-faced lies

Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:46 pm

I would also take that figure with a pinch of salt. Just as it is in a club's interest these days to maximise attendances to attract advertising, sponsorship etc, so it is also in their interests to keep the cost of policing down.

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Re: Bare-faced lies

Post by Matt » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:58 am

Another amazing figure:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... sponse.pdf

From a FOI standpoint the games at Celtic Park seem to attract a standard 26,083, this time for the Hibs game on 14th December :P

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Re: Bare-faced lies

Post by Scottish » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:17 am

Hib's? Clearly a request from a greengrocer.

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Re: Bare-faced lies

Post by Scottish » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:52 am

I am going to post my thoughts and some comparisons on a new thread.

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Re: Bare-faced lies

Post by Scottish » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:38 am

In England accurate figures are available from 1925-26 onwards. The data for Scottish football prior to 1961 has been lost though must have been available at some point as various references have been made in print over the years. But it's certainly not beyond the clubs to issue accurate figures. Here in Spain the figures are mixed. Having a look at this weekend's games (and there's still one fixture to be played tomorrow night) some are estimates and some aren't. The point is that most clubs will have far more members than fans in attendance yet unlike Scotland these aren't counted for attendance purposes. Figures for this weekend are:
Accurate
Barcelona 66,969
Getafe 1,583
Granada 13,463
Malaga 30,377

Estimate
Athletic Bilbao 47,000
Atletico Madrid 51,800
Betis 31,000
Elche 19,000
Levante 18,500

Why some do one and others another I don't know, but certainly attendance figures at Barcelona are based on numbers inside the ground. Not by the old-fashioned method of turnstile clicks, but the similar and modern way of bar codes pressed against a button. If Barça wanted, they could do an OF and claim 98,000 every home game but they don't. I'm also quite sure that Getafe could claim far more than the meagre figure here.

The oddity in Spain is Real Madrid. A round 75,000 one home game followed by 68,655 the next. Then 80,000 followed by 73,874. I have no idea why this is the case. Thus far this season they have issued six accurate figures and four estimates while Barcelona ( previous to this season all matches had accurate figures) have had eight accurate and three estimates.

If the two biggest clubs in Spain can (for most matches) provide an accurate figure and a reasonable estimate for those which don't have one then the two biggest Scottish clubs - some way down the pecking order - should be able to do the same.

the hibLOG
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Re: Bare-faced lies

Post by the hibLOG » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:25 pm

Is there an issue here for clubs listed on the stock exchange too? Not all of the clubs mentioned above, but some, even some -ahem - quite lowly ones. I know it doesn't matter for financial reporting regulations - the sales are all that matter - but if I was investing in a club because I thought they were going places with a massive support base of customers behind them and I found out that they weren't playing in front of 40,000 people every week as claimed but only half of that, maybe I'd begin to wonder about the honesty of other stuff...
Fraser

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