Club Managers

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Postby prorege » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:08 pm

From the Stranraer v Alloa programme, 30/9/67:

"Our perilous position in the league . . . have made us take the step of appointing a team manager. Mr Duncan McGill is no stranger to Stranraer . . . ."
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Postby scottish » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:47 pm

Thanks. That reads as if Dunky McGill was their first manager. But really, up to Sanny McAnespie this is a grey area.
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Re: QUEEN OF THE SOUTH

Postby Skyline Drifter » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:58 pm

Skyline Drifter wrote:Queen of the South FC - Managers All Time

1919 - 1921: Committee
1922 - 1923: Joe Dodds (Player / Coach)
1924 - 1927: Board of Directors
1 Jun 1928 - 31 Jul 1931: Alec Wright (Player / Secretary / Manager)
1 Aug 1931 - 29 Jun 1935: Board of Directors / Jimmy McKinnell Snr
29 Jun 1935 - 22 Mar 1937: George McLachlan
27 Mar 1937 - 2 Jul 1938: Willie Ferguson
2 Jul 1938 - April 1946: Jimmy McKinnell Senior (Secretary / Manager)
April 1946 - 23 May 1961: Jimmy McKinnell Junior (Secretary / Manager)
23 May 1961 - 28 Jan 1964: George Farm (Player / Manager)
28 Jan 1964 - April 1965: Board of Directors
Aug 1965 - 31 May 1966: Bobby Shearer (Player / Coach)
31 May 1966 - 4 May 1968: Jackie Husband
1968 - 1970: Board of Directors
Summer 1970 - Dec 1970: Harold Davis
Mid May 1971 - Mar 1973: Jim Easton (Player / Coach)
Mar 1973 - Late Sep 1974: Willie McLean
Summer 1975 - 24 May 1978: Mike Jackson (Jackson had been coach under the Board since McLean's departure)
12 Jul 1978 - 23 Nov 1978: Willie Hunter
23 Nov 1978 - May 1979: Board of Directors (Harry Hood took training)
Late Jun 1979 - 15 Apr 1980: Billy Little
May 1980 - Late Dec 1980: George Herd
Late Dec 1980 - 27 Feb 1982: Board of Directors
27 Feb 1982 - 17 Apr 1982: Harry Hood
June 1982 - 12 May 1984: Drew Busby (Player / Manager)
June 1984 - 1st Week Aug 1986: Nobby Clark
1st Week Aug 1986 - 28 Apr 1987: Mike Jackson
Mid Jun 1987 - 26 Nov 1988: Davie Wilson
3 Dec 1988 - 3 May 1989: Tommy McGinn (Caretaker Manager, never formally appointed)
May 1989 - 14 Apr 1990: Billy McLaren
6 Jul 1990 - 6 Mar 1991: Frank McGarvey (Player / Manager)
Late Jun 1991 - 8 May 1992: Ally McLeod
May 1992 - Mar 1993: Derek Frye (Player / Coach - The Board picked the team)
27 Mar 1993 - 7 Jan 1996: Billy McLaren
Before 10 Jan 1996 - May 1998: Rowan Alexander & Mark Shanks (Co-managers, Alexander was also a Player)
May 1998 - 13 Jan 1999: Rowan Alexander (Player / Manager)
13 Jan 1999 - 6 May 2000: George Rowe & Ken Eadie (Co-Player / Managers)
26 Apr 2000 - 3 May 2004: John Connolly
10 May 2004 - 31st Oct 2005: Iain Scott
31 Oct 2005 - 10 Nov 2005: Stuart Lovell (Caretaker Player Manager)
10 Nov 2005 - 28 Apr 2007: Ian McCall
7 May 2007 - Present: Gordon Chisholm

So anyway, Gordon Chisholm departure 22nd March 2010.

Kenny Brannigan appointed on a caretaker basis from the same date, an appointment likely to last the remainder of the season.

Haven't had time to work it out based on days, and there still aren't accurate dates for some appointments anyway, but I think that makes him our 2nd or 3rd longest serving manager since the McKinnell Secretary / Manager days. Still behind John Connolly who had four years in the post. Might or might not be longer serving than Mike Jackson's 1975 - 1978 stint depending on exactly when Jackson became manager officially. I suspect Jackson was longer though.
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Re: DUNDEE UNITED

Postby Gunboat Briggs » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:53 pm

scottish wrote:Bobby McKay Jul 1st 1939 -Oct 31st 1939
Jimmy Allan Nov 1st 1939- Jun 1st 1940
Arthur Cram June 1st 1940 -Aug 15th 1944
Jimmy Littlejohn Aug 15th 1944 -Nov 15th 1944
Charlie McGillivray Nov 15th 1944 -Oct 15th 1945

OK then, so about the Dundee United managers.....

The list as it stands was pretty accurate, or so I thought, until I started looking closely at Steve Gracie's (excellent) three volume history. This contradicts the pre-existing info on the Second World War era as established in Mike Watson's "Rags to Riches" and still carried on the club website.

Basically, it was thought that Jimmy Allan took over after Bobby McKay left the post shortly after the outbreak of war and the Scottish League closing down. He was in charge until United closed down in 1940 following the dissolution of the regional leagues. Arthur Cram, who was club secretary, was then supposedly appointed manager when the club resumed playing in 1941 (not 1940 as stated on this thread, as the team wasn't operating), remaining until 1944, when he was replaced by ex-player Jimmy Littlejohn for a brief three month reign.

Gracie, however, tells a different story and indeed removes Cram from the list of permanent managers altogether. In this version, McKay departs almost immediately after the outbreak of war, with Cram taking over on a temporary basis sometime during September 1939. Allan is then appointed manager during November, as stated above, although Gracie gives no specific date.

The summer of 1940 saw the club out of competitive football for a year, but did not mark the end of Allan's tenure as previously thought. When they resumed, Gracie has Allan agreeing to stay on as manager in June 1941. He apparently resigned sometime shortly after the match against Aberdeen on 12th September 1942; Gracie alludes to a People's Journal article speculating on his replacement.

It was at this point, not two years later, that Littlejohn (already a director) took the reins and he was to remain in place until replaced by team captain Charlie McGillivray, firstly on a caretaker basis, from September 1944. This was apparently as a result of Littlejohn's ill health. McGillivray took over permanently in November 1944, when the two timelines converge.

Now, Gracie's version is quite a departure, but the depth of research evident in his books - they are very detailed - rather makes you trust him. I did email Steve to query the differences, he didn't give any specific evidence for what he'd uncovered other than to say all his info comes from contemporary newspapers etc. He did state that the manager list in the official centenary history written by Watson and Peter Rundo corresponds to the Gracie version of events. I haven't actually got hold of this book yet, but I seem to remember David giving it a very favourable review - perhaps you could have a look to confirm? Anyway, I think in the light of this I would think some amendments to our list might be in order...
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Postby scottish » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:48 am

I can confirm that the sequence of managers in the centenary history is as you've outlined. I've now edited the details for Dundee United (along with a couple of other minor alterations) and will do so for the Excel file which I will upload later today.

Thanks for this. Most helpful.
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Postby scottish » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:58 am

New file now uploaded. See start of thread for download details. Hopefully is accurate to date unless there's been a sacking this morning I am unaware of!

Regarding Dundee Hibernians/United, I think there is now only one grey area - and it doesn't affect them in national competitions. I'm not sure whether Herbert Dainty departed in March or December 1917. I originally had the former and have now changed to the latter on the basis of the managerial bios in the United centenary history. Yet the stats section shows Pat Reilly as manager for the whole season.
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Re: Club Managers

Postby Alan Brown » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:40 am

George McMillan took on the managers role at Third Lanark on Thursday, 9th February 1939. He was previously 'trainer' with Thirds.
The Scotsman from 7th September 1946 states that McMillan's contract was "broken for a spell during the war years when one of the directors, Mr William
Campbell, acted in that capacity".
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Re: Club Managers

Postby scottish » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:33 pm

I've amended the Thirds entry to show the exact date. The Herald for Feb 10th 1939 gives the same info, saying he was "in charge of the players.....since the resignation of Mr Tom Jennings" but doesn't give a date for Jennings' resignation. In my book that makes McMillan a 'caretaker' then manager from Feb 9th and once we can establish the date Jennings departed I'll amend accordingly.

Incidentally, it's worth a look at the club entries on this thread from time to time as new nuggets of information are constantly being uncovered which helps build up a broader picture. Also, please post any sackings/resignations on here. Sometimes it can be a few days after the event (particularly in the 2nd and 3rd divisions) before I find out about them. Last changes I've made are the appointments of John Robertson at East Fife and Alan Adamson at Dumbarton.
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Re: Club Managers

Postby degsy » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:39 pm

While trying to answer a recent question about managers and games in the SPL, I used this spreadsheet to do some calculations to work it out.

I'd love to turn this into a simple database so that people could access by club, by manager, by games (although that's more complex and not as simple as dates) but I'm seeking permission to do this - it would only be an experiment and be linked back to this forum post.

Might be easier for people to look at their managers' by club and suggest updates too... thoughts?
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Re: Club Managers

Postby scottish » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:39 am

The managers file has been updated and freshly uploaded. The latest version should be easier to use as I've added an initial tab with all managers in alpahabetical order (surname). On the individual A-Z tabs I've removed all spaces and gaps, thus making sorts easier.
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Re: Club Managers

Postby degsy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:13 pm

I finally got round to having some time tonight to make the site I mentioned earlier... it's at http://footballmanagers.heroku.com

So you can view the following types of queries (self explanatory I hope):
http://footballmanagers.heroku.com/hearts
http://footballmanagers.heroku.com/hibernian
http://footballmanagers.heroku.com/jock-stein
http://footballmanagers.heroku.com/jock-wallace

All the data is based on the Excel spreadsheet but is easily sortable by team or manager... if there was interest, I could make it easy for people to edit data and export back as an Excel sheet?

I'm using this to answer my own question about numbers of games managed in the SPL.
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Re: Club Managers

Postby Gordon Baird » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:26 am

Just a few observations on the list of Dunfermline managers.
Peter Wilson was definitely still manager until the outbreak of war. On the suspension of football he returned to his home town of Beith and found employment there, although he never contacted the club again. At a board meeting on 12th October it was decided to replace him with Sandy Archibald and two days later a letter was sent to Wilson officially informing him that he was no longer the manager.

William Webber Lees was the full name of the man who managed both Dunfermline and Albion Rovers.

It's perhaps worth pointing out that Sandy Terris and Tom Younger were directors, not managers. They took over the running of team matters after Calder quit and Lees was asked to resign, working closely with the trainer(s) while another board member (at least in Terris' time) handled the secretarial duties.
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Re: Club Managers

Postby scottish » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:59 am

Gordon Baird wrote:Just a few observations on the list of Dunfermline managers.


Duly amended, thanks. Regarding Lees, I have stuck to the convention of using names by which managers were usually known. Hence Scot Symon, not James Scotland Symon, for example.
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Re: Club Managers

Postby scottish » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:09 am

The Herald for Apr 17th 1965 reports Alec McCrae's resignation as having been accepted by Falkirk the day before. Can John Meffen (or anyone else) answer, as per Question of Sport, what happened next? Did McCrae stay on till the end of the season? Or did Sammy Kean become caretaker until his permanent appointment in the summer?
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Re: Club Managers

Postby John Meffen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:35 pm

I'll have a look when I get back home. Might pop to the library to clear it all up.
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