Club Managers

Scottish Football Answers to Questions
Boabthe warrior
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Re: Club Managers

Post by Boabthe warrior » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:00 pm

Brown Ferguson and David Rowson as the senior players are taking training at Ochilview tonight and will be in charge on Saturday.

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Re: Club Managers

Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:48 am

My thanks to Skyline and Boab. I've added this info to the respective clubs.

Skyline Drifter
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Re: QUEEN OF THE SOUTH

Post by Skyline Drifter » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:04 pm

Skyline Drifter wrote: Right, A definitive answer.

I haven't had a chance to go over to Palmerston this week but I asked the Club Historian to have a look in the minute books for me to see what was there. As I suspected, the McCartney book is absolutely correct and the Jardine book is not.

For the avoidance of doubt:

George Farm was signed by Queen of the South as a player only on 4th February 1960.

On 23rd of May 1961 he accepted the manager's position, taking over from Jimmy McKinnel Jnr. This was a full 15 months later.

When I have a day of spare time at some point (not something that's likely to happen imminently given that I have a five week old son in the house now!) I'm going to have a look through the old minute books myself and get more firm dates for a lot of the early appointments if they exist.
Just as an aside as I'm in this thread anyway, the "spare time" to an extent took about five years to arrive but I have now started this project. I've upgraded my ambition though. Rather than just looking through the minute books for some managerial appointment dates, I've decided to actually go through them meeting by meeting and type them up so there is a digital record available. There are minute books running from early 1919 through to about the 1960's or 70's I think so it's no small task, especially as they seem to have met weekly in the early days.

I started about a fortnight ago and have borrowed Minute Book No 1 from the club for the purpose. I've so far gone from March 1919 through to May 1920. Will update you on any accurate dates I get for managerial appointments as I come across them but I imagine it will be a while before I get that far. I'm doing a couple of months per night and three or four nights per week roughly.

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Re: Club Managers

Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:16 pm

That would be great. I've used three main sources for my records of Palmerston Park managers - the 1994 history, contemporary reports and, of course, yourself. Where I've taken the information from newspapers I've taken care to record the appointment as from the day before publication.

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Re: Club Managers

Post by kjell » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:09 am

Hello,

In the book "Men famous in football", 1905 edition - J. Taylor is the secretary of Kilmarnock and has been since the commencement of the 1895/96 season. He lived at 13 Clarke Street, Kilmarnock.

Born in Kilmarnock.

Played for Kilmarnock Shawhank, Hurlford, Kilmarnock Athletic. Also acted as a secretary for Athletic,

It also states "still enjoys an occasional game at full back."

Kjell

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Re: Club Managers

Post by qpsnapper » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:42 am

LEATHERSTOCKING wrote:New head coach @ Hampden is...Gus McPherson! - as of 22nd January 2014. He`s Queen`s Park`s 13th coach since Eddie Turnbull(the first) in 1963. The last two, Billy Stark & Gardner Speirs, held the post for the last 9 years so Gus`s tenure looks secure for the nex few years. A win @ Peterhead on Saturday will cut the gap between top & bottom of the 4th Division to a mere 23 points with 15 games still to go - gaun yersel` big man!!
Although Gus came in this week, caretaker Richard Sinclair was in charge of the team for yesterday's game at Peterhead, the Gus era officially starts with next week's visit of East Stirlingshire to the badlands of Airdrie.

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Re: Club Managers

Post by Scottish » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:02 pm

Kjell wrote:Hello,

In the book "Men famous in football", 1905 edition - J. Taylor is the secretary of Kilmarnock and has been since the commencement of the 1895/96 season. He lived at 13 Clarke Street, Kilmarnock.

Born in Kilmarnock.

Played for Kilmarnock Shawhank, Hurlford, Kilmarnock Athletic. Also acted as a secretary for Athletic,

It also states "still enjoys an occasional game at full back."

Kjell
If Taylor was still playing an occasional game in 1905 it wasn't with Kilmarnock. Bill Donnachie's 'Who's Who' says he was a Second XI player who made a few first team appearances in an emergency in October 1892. He had also left Kilmarnock by 1905, moving to Preston in 1903 for (non-football) business purposes. His Rugby Park role was also purely administrative. Charles Smith was the Match Secretary and John Q McPherson the trainer.

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Re: THIRD LANARK

Post by A_Beattie » Sun May 18, 2014 2:45 pm

scottish wrote:Third Lanark

I've separated them (and, previously, Airdrieonians) from the rest of the ex-league clubs on account of the length of their time in league football.

Frank Heaven Aug 1903-cs 1904
Samuel Wyllie 1904-1908
Ned Tarbat August 1908-cs 1917
George Morell cs 1917-cs 1921
Alex Bennett Aug 1921-May 23rd 1924
No Manager 1924-25 PA Berry Secretary
John Richardson May 1925 - Nov 18th 1927
Jock Morrison Dec 1927- May 1929
Russell Moreland cs 1929 - Dec 1934
Tom Jennings Dec 13th 1934-Dec 8th 1938
George McMillan Feb 9th 1939- Sep 6th 1946 (Feb 9th was official appointment but in charge after resignation of Jennings)
Hugh Good (coach only) Sep 1946-Nov 1946
Jimmy Carabine Nov 1946-cs 1950
Alec Ritchie May 1950 - July 13th 1954 (died in office)
Jimmy Blair July 5th1954 - Nov 11th 1955
Bill Hiddleston Nov 11th 1955- Jan 29th 1957
Bob Shankly Oct 10th 1957 –Oct 7th 1959 (gave notice to quit Sep 17th)
George Young Oct 8th 1959-Dec 12th 1962 (appointed Sep 28th)
Willie Steel Jan 21st 1963 - June 1964
Bobby Evans June 22d 1964-June 1st 1965 (previously player/coach June 12th 1963-May 28th 1964)
Bill Hiddleston cs 1965-Apr 1966
Francis Joyner Apr 1966-Jan 7th 1967
Bobby Shearer Jan 10th 1967- Apr 1967

NOTES

Thirds history 'Still Seeing Red' gives M Richardson as manager 1925- 1934 but there are newspaper references to Morrison and Moreland during this period and John Litster's history has Richardson leaving for Falkirk in November 1927.

During the war director William Campbell was manager with George McMillan returning in 1944.

Jimmy Carabine submitted his resignation on March 30th 1950 but agreed to stay on till the end of the season.

Bill Hiddleston was the chairman.

Reuben Bennett effectively caretaker Hiddleston-Shankly

Wee Red Book gives J Murray for 57-58
George Morrell spelled his surname as I have here - with two r's. Correction should also apply to his listing under Morton managers.

I saw a reference to him (before his appointment to the Morton position) as being associated for two years with Rangers under William Wilton as Wilton's "assistant".

Another reference relates to him being secretary-manager of Glenure Athletic, Glasgow, and finally, in the last years of the 19th. century there is a referee (Scottish League authorised) I have found with the same name - 1896 - George Morrell (Glenure Athletic). Can't really be anyone else, can it? Sources are newspapers of the time.

Newspapers first carry the story of him being the new Woolwich Arsenal manager (successor to Phil Kelso) on 3rd. January, 1908 - he was reported to be taking up the reins at Arsenal in a couple of weeks thereafter. Phil Kelso worked on at Arsenal for a short time and helped out as Morrell bedded himself into the Woolwich job.

Morrell's resignation from Arsenal was reported in the papers on 19th. April, 1915. Don't know if the resignation took immediate effect.

Hope this helps.

(More to follow about George Morrell in due course....)
Last edited by A_Beattie on Thu May 22, 2014 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MORTON

Post by A_Beattie » Sun May 18, 2014 2:49 pm

scottish wrote:Morton
1904-Feb 1908 George Morell
1908-1926 Bob Cochrane
1926-Jan 1928 Jackie Wright
Jan 24th 1928-1931 David Torrance
1931-1934 Bob Cochrane
June 7th 1934-1938 Jackie Wright
1939- Jan 29th1955 Jim Davies
1955-1957 Gibby McKenzie
1957-Mar 22nd 1960 Jim McIntosh
Mar 22nd 1960-cs 1961 John S Thomson Chairman-Manager
cs 1961-1972 Hal Stewart Director-Manager
Aug 1972- Sep1972 Eric Smith
Oct 7th 1972- Feb 17th 1974 Hal Stewart Director-Manager
Feb 23rd 1974 - June 1975 Erik Sorenson
cs 1975- June 22nd 1976 Joe Gilroy
cs 1976- May 9th 1983 Benny Rooney
cs 1983- Oct 5th 1983 Alex Miller
Nov 26th 1983 - June 1984 Tommy McLean
cs 1984- May 31st 1985 Willie McLean
cs 1985- Oct 1st 1997 Allan McGraw
Oct 1st 1997-Jan 10th 2000 Billy Stark
2000 Jan 14-2000 June 1 Ian McCall
2000 July 11-2001 Jan 31 Allan Evans
2001 Jan 31-2001 May 31 Ally Maxwell
2001 July 20-2002 Mar 14 Peter Cormack
2002 Mar 14-2002 Nov 14 Dave McPherson
2002 Nov 20-2004 Sep 10 John McCormack
2004 Oct 21-2008 Feb 11 Jim McInally
2008 Feb 19 –2009 Sep 21 Davie Irons
2009 Sep 21- 2010 May 08 James Grady
2010 May 26 - 2013 Nov 23rd Allan Moore

NOTES

Dates need firming up
Coaching generally undertaken by a player while Stewart was manager
Eddie Morrison/Erik Sorensen caretakers Miller-McLean
Peter Weir caretaker Stark-McCall
Derek Collins caretaker McPherson - McCormack
Joe McLaughlin caretaker McCormack-McInally
Martin Clark caretaker McInally-Irons
David Hopkin caretaker post-Moore

McGraw sacked 23/7/97, reinstated four days later. John McMaster caretaker interim.
George Morrell - same as my posting for his listing with Third Lanark - should be two r's in his surname.

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Re: Club Managers

Post by Scottish » Sun May 18, 2014 6:50 pm

My entry in 'GAFFERS' (with the misspelling).

MORELL, George 1871-1931
Morton Aug 20th 1904- Feb 1908
Third Lanark Aug 18th 1917-Apr 30th 1921
Honours: None


Apart from their first season in 1900-01, Morton had struggled more or less constantly since joining Division One. In Morell’s first season they were second bottom of the fourteen-club league. Fortunately there was no promotion or relegation and with the division expanded to sixteen clubs, they were easily re-elected. Morell’s Morton moved up to tenth. They were thirteenth the next season in a division that now contained eighteen clubs and were eleventh in the table when he moved south to Arsenal.

On the face of it Arsenal wanting a Manager from a middling Scottish outfit seems strange but the Arsenal of the Edwardian era were not the global powerhouse of today. They played south of the Thames in Woolwich, were in a bad way financially and wanted a Manager used to operating on a restricted budget. In Morell they found the ideal candidate. Players were sold on to ‘bigger’ clubs in the north of England while he brought in replacements from the likes of Petershill and Queen’s Park who cost nothing or next to nothing. Morell was Manager when Arsenal moved to Highbury in 1913. However he notched up an unwanted record a few months earlier as the only Arsenal Manager to see the club relegated. He remained until the wartime shutdown in 1915 by which time it was clear Arsenal intended to replace him after the war. Morell returned north to Third Lanark. They were mid-table in his first two seasons but he took them into the top half in his last two years in charge.

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Re: Club Managers

Post by ScottishFA » Sun May 18, 2014 7:38 pm

And on the subject of spelling for Third Lanark managers, that lovely man Bill Hiddelston spelled his name like that, not Hiddleston.

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Re: Club Managers

Post by Scottish » Mon May 19, 2014 9:40 am

ScottishFA wrote:And on the subject of spelling for Third Lanark managers, that lovely man Bill Hiddelston spelled his name like that, not Hiddleston.
I've got the right spelling in the book (or latest edition thereof) but not here. Will change.

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Re: Club Managers

Post by A_Beattie » Mon May 26, 2014 11:08 am

George Morrell's last occupation was as a Clerk in the Corporation's Public Assistance Department. He was buried at Jeanfield Cemetery, Glasgow (Eastern Necropolis) on Tuesday, 3rd. February, 1931. (Glasgow Herald death notice, Monday, 2.2.1931).

The Post Sunday Special of 12th. August, 1917 announced the news of George Morrell's appointment as manager of Third Lanark. He replaced Edward (Ned) Tarbat who had enlisted in the army and was at that time stationed at Maryhill Barracks, Glasgow. :0)

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Re: Club Managers

Post by A_Beattie » Thu May 29, 2014 9:36 pm

scottish wrote: WAUGH, William
Heart of Midlothian Aug 15th 1903-Apr 1st 1908
Honours: Scottish Cup Winner 1905-06, Scottish League Runner-Up 1903-04, 1905-06, Scottish Cup Finalist 1906-07
Don't really know where to put this. Anyway: Glasgow Herald, Saturday, January 8, 1921, page 13, column 3 (middle) -

"DEATH OF FORMER HEARTS MANAGER. The death occurred yesterday morning, following an attack of pneumonia, of Mr. W.L. Waugh, spirit merchant, Volunteer Arms, Uphall, who is well remembered in connection with Association Football in the East. At one time a prominent St. Bernard's player, Mr. Waugh, before going to Uphall about 20 years ago, acted as manager to the Heart of Midlothian Football Club."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=G ... page&hl=en

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Re: Club Managers

Post by Scottish » Fri May 30, 2014 12:42 am

Thanks for that. I have him as leaving Hearts at the end of 1907-08 and being interviewed by (Woolwich) Arsenal as a potential successor to Phil Kelso. When this didn't transpire he took over a pub in Broxburn. Knowing local sensitivities, would it be more correct to say Uphall?

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