Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Snuff » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:55 am

With Jimmy Stephen's death, Hugh Long now becomes Scotland's oldest living former internationalist.

I have been unable to establish a date of death for Andy Paton (Motherwell and Scotland), so, if Andy is still alive, he provisionally slots in in second place, with Bobby Brown third.

I am trying to find out if Andy Paton is still with us and once I get that sorted out, I will post a new "first XI".
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby bluedragon » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:06 pm

Snuff wrote:With Jimmy Stephen's death, Hugh Long now becomes Scotland's oldest living former internationalist.

I have been unable to establish a date of death for Andy Paton (Motherwell and Scotland), so, if Andy is still alive, he provisionally slots in in second place, with Bobby Brown third.

I am trying to find out if Andy Paton is still with us and once I get that sorted out, I will post a new "first XI".


I have Hugh Long and Andy Paton as having the same date of birth - 2nd January 1923!
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Snuff » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 pm

Further to my earlier posts - I have now been able to confirm that Andy Paton is alive, I spoke to his wife this afternoon.

The big question is now: who comes first - Andy Paton or Hugh Long? - both of whom were born on 2 January, 1923 (although I have seen Long's d.o.b. as 6 January, 1923).

IF we accept that the internationals against Belgium and Switzerland in 1946 have been retrospectively upgraded from "Victory" to "Full" internationals, then I would suggest Paton, who played against Belgium, on 23 January, 1946, is now the senior survivor. Long's solitary Scotland appearance came against Northern Ireland on 27 November, 1946, with Paton going on to win two further caps v Denmark and Sweden in May, 1952.

So, until we definitely sort out who has prior right, the First XI now reads:

Andy Paton (Motherwell - three caps - 1945-46 : 1951-52: d.o.b. 02/01/1923
Hugh Long (Clyde) – one cap – 1946-47: d.o.b. 02 or 06/01/1923
Bobby Brown (Rangers) - three caps – 1946/47 : 1951-52: d.o.b. 19/03/1923
Jimmy Watson (Motherwell and Huddersfield Town) – two caps – 1947-48 : 1953-54: d.o.b. 16/01/1924
Ian Black (Southampton) – one cap – 1947-48: d.o.b. 27-03-1924
Sammy Cox (Rangers) – 25 caps – 1947-48 : 1953-54: d.o.b. 13/04/1924
Alex Forbes (Sheffield Utd and Arsenal) – 14 caps – 1946-47 : 1951-52: d.o.b. 21/01/1925
Johnny McKenzie (Partick Thistle) – nine caps - 1953-54 : 1955-56: d.o.b. 04/09/1925
Jock Aird (Burnley) – four caps – 1953-54: d.o.b. 18/02/1926
Doug Cowie (Dundee) - 20 caps - 1952-53 : 1957-58: d.o.b. 01/05/1926
Tommy Docherty (Preston NE and Arsenal) - 25 caps - 1950-51 : 1958-59: d.o.b. 24 April, 1928.

The "maybes" on the list are Watson, Black, Forbes and Aird, who is somewhere in Australia and was definitely alive in 2011.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby RobertB » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:51 pm

Hats off to you for fantastic research but I cant help feeling like this thread is like gods waiting room.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Scottish » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:16 pm

RobertB wrote:gods waiting room.


Better known as Largs.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Snuff » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:54 pm

Scottish wrote:
Better known as Largs.


Don't know David - your own wee seaside burgh does offer one or two tempting "Pensioner" meal deals in its eating places - which might indicate a few coffin dodgers are dodging around there too.

I prefer to think of the entire Ayrshire Coast as GWR.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby MadMac » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:08 am

I'm presently trying to get Andy Paton's status confirmed by someone who will either know or know someone who does. Google shows no report of his demise.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Snuff » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:47 am

MadMac wrote at 4.08am on Wednesday:
I'm presently trying to get Andy Paton's status confirmed by someone who will either know or know someone who does. Google shows no report of his demise.


I had previously posted, at 3.45pm on Tuesday:
Further to my earlier posts - I have now been able to confirm that Andy Paton is alive, I spoke to his wife this afternoon.


I somehow get the feeling, Mrs Paton ought to know whether or not her husband was alive.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby MadMac » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:26 pm

Snuff wrote:MadMac wrote at 4.08am on Wednesday:
I'm presently trying to get Andy Paton's status confirmed by someone who will either know or know someone who does. Google shows no report of his demise.


I had previously posted, at 3.45pm on Tuesday:
Further to my earlier posts - I have now been able to confirm that Andy Paton is alive, I spoke to his wife this afternoon.


I somehow get the feeling, Mrs Paton ought to know whether or not her husband was alive.


Ah, that one had slid right past me. Thanks.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby ScottishFA » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:14 pm

Well, it's hats off to Andy Paton!

I've just spent a day in Register House in Edinburgh, and among other things I checked Hugh Long's birth certificate. Lo and behold, he not only has a middle name - Bradley - but he was born on 3 January 1923, a day later than we thought.

For good measure, I dug out the date of Willie McNaught's death, which took place in Kirkcaldy on 12 April 1989. And his date of birth was also a couple of days out, it was actually 9 May 1922.

I've unearthed a number of other player details which I will post separately.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby bluedragon » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:11 pm

[quote="ScottishFA"]Well, it's hats off to Andy Paton!

I've just spent a day in Register House in Edinburgh, and among other things I checked Hugh Long's birth certificate. Lo and behold, he not only has a middle name - Bradley - but he was born on 3 January 1923, a day later than we thought. quote]

Hats off indeed! Thanks for checking and confirming the date. We now have a clear gap of a day between No 1 and No 2 on the list! I wss thinking that we might need to check times of birth to determine who is No 1!
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Scottish » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:13 pm

Snuff wrote:Don't know David - your own wee seaside burgh does offer one or two tempting "Pensioner" meal deals in its eating places - which might indicate a few coffin dodgers are dodging around there too.


Not really my "own wee seaside burgh." Just had to go to school there on account of my own village being far too wee to support a secondary school

Snuff wrote:I prefer to think of the entire Ayrshire Coast as GWR.

True. With the option of playing golf while you wait.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby ScottishFA » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:15 am

Oops! Just done a death search for Hugh Bradley Long, a bit easier with his middle name. He died in Glasgow in 1988, aged 65. Can't get the exact date at present, but he's out of the top ten for sure.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Snuff » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:44 am

Many thanks to ScottishFA for his research in Edinburgh.

The "First XI" now reads, as far as I can determine:

Andy Paton
Bobby Brown
Jimmy Watson
Ian Black
Sammy Cox
Alex Forbes
Johnny McKenzie
Jock Aird
Doug Cowie
Tommy Docherty
Ian Gardiner (East Fife and Motherwell) - one cap v Wales, 13 November, 1957 - d.o.b. 18/09/1928

"On the bench" - Lawrie Reilly (28/10/1928) and John Hewie (12/12/1928).
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Snuff » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:01 pm

Further to my post of this morning; there's been a late change at "outside left". My East Fife contact tells me Ian Gardiner died in 1990, which brings Lawrie Reilly (born 28 October, 1928) into the list in 11th place.
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