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www.scottishleague.net • View topic - Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Snuff » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:03 am

Further to my earlier posts, I now have an updated list of "The First XI", i.e. Scotland's oldest surviving internationalists. It appears Jimmy Watson (Motherwell and Huddersfield Town) died in the early 1990s, so my list now reads:

Andy Paton (Motherwell)
Bobby Brown (Queen's Park and Rangers)
Ian Black (Southampton)
Sammy Cox (Rangers)
Alex Forbes (Sheffield United and Arsenal)
Johnny McKenzie (Partick Thistle)
Jock Aird (Burnley)
Doug Cowie (Dundee)
Tommy Docherty (Preston NE and Arsenal)
Lawrie Reilly (Hibernian)
John Hewie (Charlton Athletic)

Sub: Fred Martin (Aberdeen)
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby football2011 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:17 pm

Ian Black died last Thursday which leaves the new X1 as

Andy Paton (Motherwell)
Bobby Brown (Queen's Park and Rangers)
Sammy Cox (Rangers)
Alex Forbes (Sheffield United and Arsenal)
Johnny McKenzie (Partick Thistle)
Jock Aird (Burnley)
Doug Cowie (Dundee)
Tommy Docherty (Preston NE and Arsenal)
Lawrie Reilly (Hibernian)
John Hewie (Charlton Athletic)
Fred Martin (Aberdeen)

New substitute to find.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby ScottishFA » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:04 pm

I've had a scan through my records for those born in the 1930s (ie after Fred Martin) and I think the following are still alive, in birth order:

John Little 8 July 1930
Michael Cullen 3 July 1931
John Grant 16 June 1931
David Mathers 23 October 1931
Jimmy Murray 4 February 1933
David Herd 15 April 1934
Graham Leggat 20 June 1934
Dave Mackay 14 November 1934
Jimmy Millar 20 November 1934
Lawrie Leslie 17 March 1935
Eddie Connachan 27 August 1935
1936: Ralph Brand, Steve Chalmers, George Herd, Davie Holt, George Mulhall, Pat Quinn, Billy Ritchie.
1937: Willie Bell, Tommy Ewing, Duncan MacKay, Jackie Plenderleith, Ron Yeats, Alex Young
1938: Dave Gibson, Alan Gilzean, Frank Haffey, John MacLeod, Ian St John
1939: Pat Crerand, Frank McLintock, Ian Ure, David Wilson.

If any of these fine men are actually dead, I would appreciate an update. And similarly if I have missed someone still going.

Finally, I don't have a note of death for James Forrest (the Motherwell one) who was born in 1927. Is he perhaps still alive?
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Scottish » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:21 pm

AFAIK Campbell Forsyth (actual first name Robert) dob 5/5/1934, Plean, is still alive.
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby sureitsza » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:49 am

Bertie Auld 23 March 1938
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby FlowGently » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:51 pm

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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby FlowGently » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:01 pm

Eric Caldow 14th May 1934
Played with the successful juvenile side Glenpark , New Cumnock in Season 1949/50 before stepping up to Muirkirk Juniors
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Scottish » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:56 am

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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby leicester » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:00 am

I realise neither are now 'surviving', but I'm reduced to owning up that I'm still bereft of absolutely reliable information on two of Leicester City's sometime Scottish internationals; and sincerely hope that a board member might be able to proffer chapter & verse on both/either of the following Patersons...

Paterson, James
b. Stirling, c1907 [????????]; d. [????????]
Career: Causewayhead FC; Camelon Juniors; Jan 1927 Everton; cs 1927 St Johnstone; cs 1930 Cowdenbeath; May 1932 LEICESTER CITY; July 1935 Reading; July 1938 Clapton Orient.

[I've come up with numerous possibilities; and I'm aware that several sites (incl Fitbastats) give b. Cowdenbeath 15.6.1905 (not, however, on Scotland's People); others include James McPherson Paterson, b. 21.7.05 Falkirk (illegitimate; mother Jane), d. 1989 Falkirk; James Forrester Paterson. b. Bonnybridge, Stirling, 1.11.07]

Paterson, John William
b. Dundee, 14th December 1896; d. [???????????]
Career: Dundee Arnott; Dundee North End; Army football; Fort Hill Athletic; Apr 1919 Dundee; Dec 1919 LEICESTER CITY; Mar 1922 Sunderland; Oct 1924 Preston North End; Sept 1925 Mid-Rhondda; Jan 1926 Queens Park Rangers; July 1928 Mansfield Town; Oct 1928 Montrose.

[I have an inkling that Jock's demise may have come in 1970; but no reliable confirmation]

As ever, any constructive responses (and I've had many from this board) would be most welcome. [And, as ever, I'll be more than happy to field any Leicester-related queries in return; I can now even stretch to offering (usually slightly less) info on players who represented Loughborough in the Midland Alliance, Midland League and Football League 1890-1900. I'm very much in the foothills of that particular bit of research...].

Cheers,

PT
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby cowdenbeather » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:38 pm

There has always been some confusion regarding Jim Paterson with most sources suggesting he was either born in Stirling or Dunipace in 1907. There also was a rumour though that he actually had been born in Cowdenbeath. He was definitely living with his family in the Causewayhead area of Stirling when he joined Cowdenbeath in 1930. However, at long last, after a lot of detective work, we can confirm that Jim Paterson joins Tommy Muirhead, Alex Venters and Willie Callaghan in being a Scottish internationalist who was born in Cowdenbeath. The vital clue at last was provided when a report of his marriage was located in the press. Newspaper reports also suggest he played for Causewayhead United & Strathallan Hawthorn as well before going to Camelon.

James Paterson’s birth certificate shows that he was born in Foulford Road, Cowdenbeath at what seems to be listed as 8b Block (hard to decipher) on 15 June 1905. His father was a miner named Alexander Paterson who had married Elizabeth Hunter at Langour, Tillicoultry in 1900.

Jim Paterson died on 30th December 1978 at 20 Fountain Road, Bridge of Allan
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby ScottishFA » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:51 pm

I was in Register House today working on more Scotland internationals and managed to track down the details of John Paterson, all confirmed by him giving his occupation as professional footballer on his marriage certificate in 1920.

He was born on 14 December 1897 (not 1896) at 41 William Street, Forebank, Dundee. He died on 11 January 1973 at Kings Cross Hospital, Dundee with his profession given as a retired Works Department labourer. And in all three certificates - birth, marriage and death - there is no middle name of William, he is just plain John Paterson.

Also, to complete the info on Jimmy Watson, mentioned earlier in the thread, he died on 11 April 1996 in Dunfermline (he was born 16 January 1924 in Plean, Stirlingshire).
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby leicester » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:16 pm

Sincere thanks to both Cowdenbeather and ScottishFA for invaluable info on the Patersons.

PT
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby ScottishFA » Fri May 03, 2013 2:32 pm

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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby nightfire » Fri May 03, 2013 6:33 pm

Bobby Collins born 16th February 1931
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Re: Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists

Postby Snuff » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:53 am

Following the recent sad deaths of Lawrie Reilly and Fred Martin, there are a couple of new faces in our list of Oldest Surviving Scottish Internationalists.

The new 'First XI' now reads:

Andy Paton (Motherwell)
Bobby Brown (Queen's Park and Rangers)
Sammy Cox (Rangers)
Alex Forbes (Sheffield United and Arsenal)
Johnny McKenzie (Partick Thistle)
Jock Aird (Burnley)
Doug Cowie (Dundee)
Tommy Docherty (Preston North End and Arsenal)
John Hewie (Charlton Athletic)
Johnny Little (Rangers)
Bobby Collins (Celtic, Everton and Leeds United)
Mike Cullen (Luton Town)
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