SCOTLAND - IRELAND 11-0 23rd February 1901

Scottish Football Answers to Questions
Post Reply
Gabe
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:16 pm
Contact:

SCOTLAND - IRELAND 11-0 23rd February 1901

Post by Gabe » Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:45 pm

Some months ago I had a mail with Andy and he explained to me that it was impossible to have a certain list of the scorers because :
“This match has always been a problem, as there is no definitive record of the goalscorers. It all depends which newspaper you choose to believe, as they all have different information.”
He also attached some match reports “from several newspapers - you will see it is impossible to reach a conclusive answer!”
So, we can say that the probem of the scorers can not be solved.

Now my questions to have your help about the minutes of goals.

Only the 1st goal has an unrounded minute (6). The other 10 goals have all rounded minutes. Is it possible? Why some sites have not them? They have "(?)" Or "(n/a). They do not consider 15, 25, 30, 40 etc., as reliable minutes ?

So my questions are : are reliable the minutes that we have? Why in a match in 1901 (30 years after the FIRST International) is it still impossible to have the right minutes? At last, where the writers of those rounded minutes have found them?

Can you help me to find the correct minutes? Is it possible ?

Many questions…..

Hope in your sources.

Alan Brown
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:08 pm
Location: Kilwinning
Contact:

Re: SCOTLAND - IRELAND 11-0 23rd February 1901

Post by Alan Brown » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:03 pm

Hi Gabe,

It really is a pity that the full goal times are not available for this match, as it was Scotland's record victory in an International!
I would suggest that a good proportion of the early international goal times were estimates. Of course back then they didn't realize that 'anoraks' like us would be seeking out this information many decades later! Happy hunting.

Alan

Gabe
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:16 pm
Contact:

Re: SCOTLAND - IRELAND 11-0 23rd February 1901

Post by Gabe » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:57 pm

Hi Alan,

Sadly hunting for those details from Italy it is so hard. No news from Italian media about the minutes of the match.

May I still trust in Scottish sources ?

Thanks

Gabe

Gabe
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:16 pm
Contact:

Re: SCOTLAND - IRELAND 11-0 23rd February 1901

Post by Gabe » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:04 pm

Hi Alan,

sadly, hunting in Italy for the minutes of that match it is so hard. No news from the Italian media.

May I still trust in the Scottish sources ?

Thanks

Gabe

bluedragon
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:42 pm
Contact:

Re: SCOTLAND - IRELAND 11-0 23rd February 1901

Post by bluedragon » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:10 pm

Gabe and I have been trying to work out the goal times. We have used the British Newspaper Archive. As we know the precise goal times were not recorded as a matter of course at this time but the various reports of the game gave some times and other good clues. With the exception of the 6th goal we have a good estimated time for each goal.

What became clear is that conflict in the names of some goal scorers was when two goals were scored in quick succession, i.e. the 7th & 8th goals and the 9th, 10th & 11th goals. With a little more time we will look at the reports of the 9th and 10th goals where the biggest difference occurs.

For the newspaper reporters sitting maybe a 100 yards away from the action and without the help of shirt numbers it must have been a difficult task. For the Irish reporters it was even worse as they would be unfamiliar with many of the Scottish players and having two Campbells in the Scots team. To make it even worse the flurry of goals at certain points in the game must have made it difficult to, first, note the goal scorers’ name and, second, decipher their notes when it came to filing their copy.

Here is our best estimate.

1-0 J.W.Campbell (Rangers) (10)
2-0 J.W.Campbell (Rangers) (12)
3-0 Russell (Celtic) (20)
4-0 J.J.Campbell (Celtic) (21)
5-0 McMahon (Celtic) (26)
HALF TIME
6-0 Hamilton (Rangers) (time not known)
7-0 McMahon (Celtic) (70)
8-0 Hamilton (Rangers) (71)
9-0 Hamilton (Rangers) (84)
10-0 J.J.Campbell (Celtic) (85)
11-0 Hamilton (Rangers) (86)

On that day (23 February 1901) Scotland beat Ireland in two association football internationals with the Junior international being played at Cliftonville FC, Belfast. To make a good day of it Scotland defeated Ireland in the Rugby Union International in Edinburgh.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests