Dr John Smith 1877-1884

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Gabe
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Dr John Smith 1877-1884

Post by Gabe » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:34 pm

Hi,

after a lot of time I am here again to have,please, your help.
Digging to update the fullnames of a few Scotland international players of the past for the RSSSF archive, I bumped into Dr John Smith.
The problem initially was about the date of his degree, to understand why RSSSF named him as John Smith as well as Dr John Smith, then the problem became the list of the clubs Smith played for when he gained 10 caps for Scotland.
Andy very kindly told me when he became Doctor (1881 at Edinburgh University) and I have solved the first one.

The unsolvable crux, in my opinion, is now the list of his clubs as I told above. I wouldn't like to be the "tormentor" of Andy so I ask you please to unit your minds and eyes to help me.

RSSSF and Eu.football.info have two different lists. I tried to check them by the pages of the newspapers which appear on the Londonhearts site (its list is however the same of RSSSF) and wrote thanks to them another different Dr John Smith clubs list!
The pages of those newspapers are not so good to be read on internet and some of them there are not.
Unfortunately I have not other documents to be checked.

My not good English, as some of you already know, doesn't probably help me to explain better the problem.
I hope I was understood.
In the end, without showing you all the different lists to avoid any confusion, he played for Mauchline, Edinburgh University and Queen's Park.
But which was the correct sequence?

Thank you vey much.

bluedragon
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Re: Dr John Smith 1877-1884

Post by bluedragon » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:35 am

Hi Gabe,

I have searched the on-line newspaper archive for Doctor John Smith. From what I can gather from the newspapers of the day the only club affiliations that may need to be changed on the RSSSF are:
Match 11 & 12 club should be Edinburgh University and not Mauchline
Match 19 & 20 club should be Edinburgh University and not Queen’s Park

From what I have found you have shown him as “John Smith” and “Doctor John Smith” at the correct times.

It is difficult to work out as he often played football for two clubs in the same season but I have assumed the newspapers would have recorded his principal club at the time of each international. Some of the time gaps in his football career might be due to his medical studies.

Here is a timeline that might help you and also let others correct what I have or give you more information.

1876/77 SEASON

He was probably studying at Edinburgh University at this time but the university did not have a football club and he would have been associated with his home town club (Mauchline).
(Match 7) 3rd March 1877 (Friendly match) ENGLAND - SCOTLAND 1-3 (0-1) John Smith (1/Mauchline)
(Match 8)5th March 1877 (Friendly match) WALES - SCOTLAND 0-2 (0-0) John Smith (2/Mauchline)

1877/78 SEASON

He was still associated with Mauchline during this season as there was no football team at Edinburgh University. The university team was formed late in the season and played its first match in February 1878. He was awarded MA (Master of Arts) at the end of the 1877/78 Academic Year. It looks as if it was after this he studied to become a doctor.

1878/79 SEASON

He was a founder member of the Edinburgh University Association Football Club in 1878 and was captain of the University team in the 1879/80 and 1880/81 seasons. However, he still had an association with Mauchline FC.
(Match 11) 5th April 1879 (Friendly match) ENGLAND - SCOTLAND 5-4 (1-4) John Smith (3/Mauchline) but the newspapers say Edinburgh University.
(Match 12) 7th April 1879 (Friendly match) WALES - SCOTLAND 0-3 (0-1) John Smith (4/Mauchline) but the newspapers say Edinburgh University.

1979/80 SEASON

He played three cup matches for Queen’s Park in January 1880 and May 1880 (2).
(Match 13) 13th March 1880 (Friendly match) SCOTLAND - ENGLAND 5-4 (3-2) John Smith (5/Edinburgh University)

1980/81 SEASON

He played eight cup matches for Queen’s Park. He joined Queen’s Park during the season but was still at university.
(Match 15) 12th March 1881 (Friendly match) ENGLAND - SCOTLAND 1-6 (0-1) John Smith (6/Edinburgh University)
(Match 16) 14th March 1881 (Friendly match) WALES - SCOTLAND 1-5 (1-4) John Smith (7/Edinburgh University)
He was awarded MB CM (Batchelor of Medicine: Master of Surgery) at the end of the 1880/81 Academic Year and was then entitled to have the prefix “Doctor”.

1981/82 SEASON
He did not play any cup matches for Queen’s Park.

1982/83 SEASON

He played two cup matches for Queen’s Park.
(Match 19) 10th March 1883 (Friendly match) ENGLAND - SCOTLAND 2-3 (2-2) Dr.John Smith (8/Queen's Park) but the newspapers say Edinburgh University.
(Match 20) 12th March 1883 (Friendly match) WALES - SCOTLAND 0-3 (0-2) Dr.John Smith (9/Queen's Park) but the newspapers say Edinburgh University.

1983/84 SEASON

He played 14 cup matches for Queen’s Park.
(Match 22) 15th March 1884 (1st Home International Championship) SCOTLAND - ENGLAND 1-0 (1-0) Dr.John Smith (10/Queen's Park)

1984/85 SEASON

He played one cup match for Queen’s Park.

1885/86 SEASON

He was awarded MD (Doctor of Medicine) by Edinburgh University at the end of the 1885/86 Academic Year.

Gabe
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Re: Dr John Smith 1877-1884

Post by Gabe » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:28 am

Hi Douglas,

what can I say ? Absolutely awesome !

Thanks a lot for your kind help. It was once again decisive.

Gabe

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