Brian Clough

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Brian Clough

Post by Insertnamehere » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:05 pm

I know this isnt so much a book as a film but, well they have set up a web site to promote the film and for me its one of the best football sites ive seen not in a long time just ever. Very clever marketing and great sources.

http://www.cloughintherough.co.uk

As for Clough, I was aware of what he was doing and did at Forrest in my early teens, in later life I always took an interest in him as he was the maverick type of person that appeals to me.

In snooker its Higgins, football Clough etc........... a genius?

Its not for me to say but he must have been a right good laugh on a night out! :)

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Post by lbb » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:58 am

I'm afraid I couldn't get the link to work in both Firefox and Safari.

I've never read The Damned United but I'm looking forward to the film.

I read Clough's biography years ago. He mentions something about his first day at Nottingham Forest, the job after Leeds United, and the fact he arrived there mortgage-free and in an expensive car, both paid for by the Leeds payoff. Significantly, it was the first time in his life he was working because he wanted not to and not for financial reasons. It made a huge difference to his approach.

Some of Clough's comments and stunts were tremendous. And anyone who calls Martin O'Neill 'a smart arse' is alright by me. :wink:

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:00 am

Link doesn't work here either.

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:02 am

lbb wrote:I read Clough's biography years ago. He mentions something about his first day at Nottingham Forest, the job after Leeds United, and the fact he arrived there mortgage-free and in an expensive car, both paid for by the Leeds payoff. Significantly, it was the first time in his life he was working because he wanted not to and not for financial reasons. It made a huge difference to his approach.

Some of Clough's comments and stunts were tremendous. And anyone who calls Martin O'Neill 'a smart arse' is alright by me. :wink:
I've read at least three entirely different Clough biographies. There are loads out there and I was a massive Clough / Forest fan back in the day. I can't recall reading a suggestion that he changed his approach one bit though. And by all accounts I don't think he did.

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Post by lbb » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:10 am

Skyline Drifter wrote: I've read at least three entirely different Clough biographies. There are loads out there and I was a massive Clough / Forest fan back in the day. I can't recall reading a suggestion that he changed his approach one bit though. And by all accounts I don't think he did.
I could have worded that differently. It was Clough's own words and I think he was trying to say that he no longer had to worry about pleasing chairmen to keep his job. It might be argued that he never did so anyway but there was definitely something there about the freedom the Leeds deal gave him to do as he pleased meaning he could manage Forest how he wanted.

If I can find the book then I will try and post the passage to which I refer.

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Post by Scottish » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:42 am

"I came out of Elland Road a little crestfallen professionally but quite rich. I was financially secure for the first time in my life and I knew that whatever job came my way, I would be able to do it with complete peace of mind."

From 'Cloughie, Walking on Water' (Headline, 2002)

That might not be the exact quote you're looking for but I'm sure similar sentiments have been expressed in numerous publications. I can't even say whether or not that's the best book on the great man as I'm not one for football biographies generally, finding them generally to be dull apologia. The subject has to be outstanding (Clough, Shankly, Ferguson, Stein, Law) to get on my shelf or else a gift.

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Post by bobby s » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:46 am

lbb wrote:If I can find the book then I will try and post the passage to which I refer.
That's definitely mentioned in the book I read by the reporter blokey.
It's the Hope I can't stand

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Post by Cinneide » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:32 am

Skyline Drifter wrote:Link doesn't work here either.
Just a black screen for me
[url=http://www.PTEarlyYears.net/]Partick Thistle - The Early Years - A Club History Online[/url]

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Post by Scottish » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:44 am

The Times so-called interactive timeline is producing the black screen. The film website is HERE

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Post by Insertnamehere » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:40 pm

Thats strange even the link I posted still works for me, I am starting to think my computer is possessed! :evil:

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Post by lbb » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:30 pm

scottish wrote:"I came out of Elland Road a little crestfallen professionally but quite rich. I was financially secure for the first time in my life and I knew that whatever job came my way, I would be able to do it with complete peace of mind."

From 'Cloughie, Walking on Water' (Headline, 2002)

That might not be the exact quote you're looking for but I'm sure similar sentiments have been expressed in numerous publications. I can't even say whether or not that's the best book on the great man as I'm not one for football biographies generally, finding them generally to be dull apologia. The subject has to be outstanding (Clough, Shankly, Ferguson, Stein, Law) to get on my shelf or else a gift.
It's roughly the gist of it. This is the full text I was referring to from Clough's autobiography with John Sadler, published in 1994 -

'They weren't to know it at the time, but the most significant aspect of my arrival at the City Ground in January 1975 was the car that carried me there. I was driving a beautiful pale blue Merc - a 'present' from Leeds as part of my pay-off for the most profitable forty-four days' work I ever did.

That car symbolised the feeling of freedom and independence that meant I could dive headlong into management again - this time without giving a toss about anybody. Don't get me wrong, I have always cared about players, about people with talent. It's the rest that get in the way - the meddling directors and the parasites who hang around them...From the moment I left Leeds, some club was going to benefit from Brian Clough's belief in his own ability - and the sure knowledge that I could do the job precisely the way I wanted, on my own terms....The sack at Leeds hurt me badly, but it also set me up that I need never fear the sack again.'

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Post by Scottish » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:18 am

The one I quoted from was ghosted by Sadler too. Maybe he had the franchise?

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Post by Scottish » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:12 am

Just watched the ITV documentary on Clough. Highly recommended. If anyone missed it then watch out for repeats or download if at all possible. A lot of previously unseen footage (including a fascinating Clough v Revie face-to-face broadcast originally only in the Yorkshire ITV region in 1974), interviews with ex-players like Martin O'Neill, John Robertson, John McGovern, Peter Shilton, Kenny Burns (who looks every bit as fearsome now as then), Trevor Francis, Johnny Giles, Peter Lorimer and Roy McFarland. Also Lawrie McMenemy, Geoff Boycott and an intriguing take on the 1977 appointment of Ron Greenwood as England manager from the then FA press officer Glen Kirton.

Plus extensive interviews with Nigel Clough and Brian Clough's widow Barbara. WTF this was doing tucked away at 10.35 pm I have no idea. A gem.

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:09 am

scottish wrote:Just watched the ITV documentary on Clough. Highly recommended. If anyone missed it then watch out for repeats or download if at all possible. A lot of previously unseen footage (including a fascinating Clough v Revie face-to-face broadcast originally only in the Yorkshire ITV region in 1974), interviews with ex-players like Martin O'Neill, John Robertson, John McGovern, Peter Shilton, Kenny Burns (who looks every bit as fearsome now as then), Trevor Francis, Johnny Giles, Peter Lorimer and Roy McFarland. Also Lawrie McMenemy, Geoff Boycott and an intriguing take on the 1977 appointment of Ron Greenwood as England manager from the then FA press officer Glen Kirton.

Plus extensive interviews with Nigel Clough and Brian Clough's widow Barbara. WTF this was doing tucked away at 10.35 pm I have no idea. A gem.
It was a tremendous programme including most surprisingly of all extensive interviews with Barbara Clough, a very private woman who has rarely allowed interviews both before Clough's death and since. I have seen the Revie v Clough footage before though, it's not at all "unseen". I'm pretty sure it's been on many a previous documentary or sports piece and it's certainly available on the web (I've watched it on YouTube before).

Really enjoyed the programme and I was very interested in the complete condemnation of 'The Damned United' by both sides of the divide at the time. The Clough family are livid about it whilst Johnny Giles was practically spitting feathers at it and claimed to have sued David Peace and won. Notwithstanding that the film-makers claim to have a much more conciliatory product I for one won't be giving a penny of my cash to the project.

Thought Glenn Kirton effective betrayal of his previous employers was pretty interesting too even if they are all dead now.

Pretty amused as an aside about Lawrie McMenemy being asked who he thought was the best candidate for England manager at the time and replying, possibly under some pressure to do so, "Brian Clough" even though McMenemy himself was on the short list and interviewed for it!

I also thought it funny that Simon Clough said he sees Nigel turning into Brian more each day with the way he talks and the way he walks. I said that a few weeks ago just after he was appointed Derby manager. He's nothing like as abrasive and brash as Brian but there are a growing number of similarities.

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Post by Scottish » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:24 pm

I wonder if the film had anything to do with Mrs Clough's appearance? The documentary being an opportunity for her to defend her late husband. As you say it's very rare for her to be in the public eye at all. I hadn't seen the 'Calendar' interview before and I can't recall a previous instance of an England manager engaged in a live TV discussion with his club successor. It certainly wouldn't happen nowadays and not just because the England manager is unlikely to be the previous manager of the league champions. The FA would never allow it.

Nothing better than seeing two Boro boys at each other's throat

There were quite a few managers in 1977 who fancied themselves as Revie's successor, often on the back of some not so spectacular achievements - proto-Allardyces you might say. Jack Charlton was another who reckoned the job should have been his though there's no denying Clough was the outstanding candidate both then and in 1982 when Ron Greenwood resigned (though it was obvious by then he would never get the job). It's frightening to think what he might have done considering Greenwood's team was undefeated in the 1982 World Cup.

That said, Revie was head and shoulders above everyone else in 1974 but it went badly wrong (though I wouldn't blame him for getting out when he did, all he did was jump before he was pushed. IMHO the FA's fatal mistake was clinging on to Alf Ramsey for too long. Their humiliation by the Germans at Wembley in the European championships was when they should have changed bosses, before the 1974 WC qualifiers.

Yes, lots of similarities between father and son. Maybe also with Ferguson pere and fils. Perhaps we're in for a dynastic period in management?

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