Supporting England

For English, European and World football topics.

Postby Sat31March1928 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:14 am

Alan McCabe wrote:

Yet, listening to the various radio and television phone-ins, the English press, players, managers and supporters still, on the whole, don't get it....they ain't anywhere near as good as they think they are.

...


This is my 7th World Cup 'Down South'. I'd disagree with the 'supporters' bit nobody I work with or my neighbours thought they had any chance of winning it. They did think given the 'favourable' way the Group draw had turned out that topping the group would have given them a chance of getting to the Semis.

What they weren't prepared for was the jaw dropping ineptitude of the English play, especially against Algeria. There were guffaws of laughter at the mis hit passes, the ball given away and Wayne Roooney's headless chicken imperssionation.

My comparison with Scotland would probably be 1998 when we lost to Morrocco, a bunch of 'unknowns' who took us apart.
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supporting England

Postby Snuff » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:25 am

I have a very unscientific method of ranking the teams in any World Cup. At the end of each stage I rank the losing sides in order of how close they came to progressing.

Positions after Group Stage 2010:

1. Argentina 3 3 0 0 7 1 9
2. Netherlands 3 3 0 0 5 1 9
3. Uruguay 3 2 1 0 4 0 7
4. Brazil 3 2 1 0 5 2 7
5. Germany 3 2 0 1 5 1 6
6. Spain 3 2 0 1 4 2 6
7. Paraguay 3 1 2 0 3 1 5
8. USA 3 1 2 0 4 3 5
9. Japan 3 2 0 1 4 2 6
10. Chile 3 2 0 1 3 2 6
11. Portugal 3 1 2 0 7 0 5
12. England 3 1 2 0 2 1 5
13. Mexico 3 1 1 1 3 2 4
14. Ghana 3 1 1 1 2 2 4
15. South Korea 3 1 1 1 5 6 4
16. Slovakia 3 1 1 1 4 5 4

17. Ivory Coast 3 1 1 1 4 3 4
18. Slovenia 3 1 1 1 3 3 4
19. Switzerland 3 1 1 1 1 1 4
20. South Africa 3 1 1 1 3 5 4
21. Australia 3 1 1 1 3 6 4
22. New Zealand 3 0 3 0 2 2 3
23. Denmark 3 1 0 2 3 6 3
24. Greece 3 1 0 2 2 5 3
25. Serbia 3 1 0 2 2 3 3
26. Italy 3 0 2 1 5 4 2
27. Nigeria 3 0 1 2 3 5 1
28. Algeria 3 0 1 2 0 2 1
29. France 3 0 1 2 1 4 1
30. Honduras 3 0 1 2 0 3 1
31. Cameroon 3 0 0 3 2 5 0
32. North Korea 3 0 0 3 1 12 0

By the same criteria, the 1-16 positions after the second round of games are:

1. Germany 1 1 0 0 4 1 3
2. Brazil 1 1 0 0 3 0 3
3. Argentina 1 1 0 0 3 1 3
4=. Holland 1 1 0 0 2 1 3
4=. Uruguay 1 1 0 0 2 1 3
6. Ghana 1 1 0 0 2 1 3 aet
7. Spain 1 1 0 0 1 0 3
8. Paraguay 1 1 0 0 0 0 3 5-3 pens

9. Japan 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 3-5 pens
10. USA 1 0 0 1 1 2 0 aet
11=. Slovakia 1 0 0 1 1 2 0
11=. South Korea 1 0 0 1 1 2 0
13. Portugal 1 0 0 1 0 0 0
14. Mexico 1 0 0 1 1 3 0
15. England 1 0 0 1 1 4 0
16. Chile 1 0 0 1 0 3 0

England went into the tournament with the third-best qualifying record in Europe, behind Spain and Holland; they were therefore entitled to their top eight seeding when the event kicked off - but slipped to 12th by the end of the groups, prior to sliding further down the table to finish 15th of the 32 countries.

This slippage ought not come as a surprise. England has entered 16 World Cups since 1950; twice, in 1966 as hosts and 1970 as holders, they were spared the qualifying process: thrice, in 1974, 1978 and 1994 they failed to qualify.

In the 11 tournaments for which they have qualified their qualifying performances and finals performances have placed them (in Europe) as follows:

1950 - qualified 1 in Europe : finished 6 in Europe
1954 - q 3 : f 4
1958 - q 3 : f 10
1962 - q 3 : f 6
1982 - q 12 : f 6
1986 - q 2 : f 5
1990 - q 12 : f 3
1998 - q 10 : f 7
2002 - q 9 : f 4
2006 - q 3 : f 5
2010 - q 3 : f 7

Therefore, on only four occasions from 11 attempts at winning the World Cup have England either matched or bettered their qualifying efforts. Why therefore should this latest failure come as a shock?

In fact, England's attempts to replicate their qualifying record in the actual finals are worse than Scotlands.

We have qualified for nine final tournaments (although we didn't travel in 1950). Our qualifying/finals record on the eight occasions we did take part reads:

1954 - qualifed 12 in Europe : finished 12 in Europe
1958 - q 10 : f 11
1974 - q 7 : f 7
1978 - q 6 : f 7
1982 - q 7 : f 11
1986 - q 14 : f 13
1990 - q 10 : f 12
1998 - q 10 : f 14

Therefore in three of our eight campaigns (37.5%) we've at least matched our qualifying expectations. England have only matched or bettered their expectations in four of their 11 qualifying campaigns (36.3%).

Wonderful things statistics!!!
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Postby scottish » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:16 am

This is in German but worth watching to see what happens one minute in
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Re: supporting England

Postby scottish » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:21 am

Snuff wrote:

Wonderful things statistics!!!


They are indeed but I'm not sure how you can make England 7th in Europe considering there were only six European teams in the last sixteen. I'd also query ranking an extra time win (Ghana) above a 90-minute on (Spain) but other than that, a fascinating exercise.
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supporting England

Postby Snuff » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:22 pm

Sorry, failed to noticfe I had put seventh instead of six - old age is the only excuse.

I take your point about ranking Ghana above Spain, I simply followed the convention of two goals scored outranking one goal scored in a one-goal margin of victory - but that was one I did think about.
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