Can Spain & Portugal save Europe?

For English, European and World football topics.
Scottish
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Post by Scottish » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:24 am

The final Europe v South America tally for this World Cup is:

P12 W6 D3 L3 F16 A12 Pts 21

That's the best ever outside of Europe and is down to a remarkable sequence of Europe winning the last six games played. A tournament of two halves you might say with the first six European teams to face South American opponents failing to register a single win between them then the next three (in fact the last three in the competition) European teams all winning twice each.

The overall European record against all others is:

P34 W15 D10 L9 F46 A32 Pts 55.

That's 1.62 points per match, much better than 2002 but slightly behind 1994

I'll post the full points per match figures later.

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Post by Scottish » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:42 am

European performances in World Cups held outside Europe calculated as points per match. Three points for a win, one for a draw. Extra time results counted as final result. Matches decided on penalty kicks counted as draws.

UEFAv Conmebol

1930 1.125
1950 1.100
1962 1,125
1970 1.000
1978 0.692
1986 0.786
1994 1.417
2002 1.214
2010 1.750

UEFAv Concacaf

1930 1.500
1950 2.250
1962 1.500
1970 2.000
1978 3.000
1986 1.670
1994 1.500
2002 1.333
2010 1.200

UEFAv AFC

1978 2.000
1986 2.333
1994 2.000
2002 1.417
2010 1.500

UEFAv CAF

1970 2.000
1978 2.000
1986 1.500
1994 1.857
2002 1.583
2010 1.889

UEFAv Oceania/Oth

1970 1.000
2010 1.000

UEFAv Rest of the World

1930 1.200
1950 1.429
1962 1.167
1970 1.368
1978 1.211
1986 1.276
1994 1.633
2002 1.386
2010 1.618

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Post by msdkfc » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:31 pm

Apologies if this has been mentioned before on this site (although i can't find it) - i heard on the radio that Spain and Holland have never played each other before at a World Cup or European Championship finals. So, does anyone know if they have ever played each other during qualifying for either tournament?

If so, this would mean tonight's game is the first ever competitive meeting of the two sides. Can anyone confirm this?

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can spain & portugal save europe?

Post by leicester » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:46 pm

Spain and Netherlands met twice in European Championship qualifying rounds in 1983.

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Post by leicester » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:47 pm

Sorry: missed off the chapter & verse on that last response:

www.voetbalstats.nl

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:44 pm

Best team ultimately won. Which is good. Disappointed with the Dutch tonight. They've played some good stuff right through the tournament but saved none of it for the final. A referee more stringent to the actual rules would have had them finish with 7 men at best (van Bommel, De Jong and Robben all probably should have gone before Heitinga actually did).

Dissatisfying final yet again. Has there been a really good one since 86? 90 and 94 were both awful, even worse than tonight. 98 was one sided as Brazil didn't turn up. 02 and 06 were fairly dull too.

Yet again the 3rd place match turned into a really good game though with neither side having much to lose. Disappointed we didn't get to see Klose have a go at the record. I presume he'll most likely be too old in 4 years time to return. It irks me that Ronaldo has the record outright when he was awarded a goal against Costa Rica in 02 which so clearly was an own goal. I don't think there's any dubiety about any of Klose's goals.

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Post by Alan McCabe » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:55 pm

Overall, a fairly poor climax to a very poor competition. The reliance on midfield dominance throughout has stifled the flow of matches on too many occasions, not least tonight.
Spain probably edged the Final even if Robben should have opened the scoring. It would have been an insult to the memory of the 'Total Dutch' of the 1970s had that Holland side triumphed tonight.

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Post by the hibLOG » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:24 pm

Alan McCabe wrote:It would have been an insult to the memory of the 'Total Dutch' of the 1970s had that Holland side triumphed tonight.
Spot on. I started the game pretty equivocal about who I wanted to win, but before half-time I was fully for the Spanish. They are not without their divers, dissemblers and vivisectionists but they stopped the Netherlands by keeping the ball off them rather than by kicking them.

I though Webb reffed it pretty well (though I didn't see extra time, having to get the bus to work!). Five cards in the first half was hardly trying not to ruin the spectacle by booking people too early. They were all deserved.

Not a hugely memorable game except for the winner. I'd like to see the Dutch win it one day for their tradition of excellence over many years, but not with that kind of display.

No paella for Paul the Octopus then...
Fraser

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:03 am

the hibLOG wrote:
Alan McCabe wrote:It would have been an insult to the memory of the 'Total Dutch' of the 1970s had that Holland side triumphed tonight.
I though Webb reffed it pretty well (though I didn't see extra time, having to get the bus to work!). Five cards in the first half was hardly trying not to ruin the spectacle by booking people too early. They were all deserved.
Mmm, I understand the "don't want to ruin the game early" school of thought but it could very easily be argued at least two of them deserved worse. van Bommel's jump through Xavi (or was it Iniesta) was a shocking challenge completely out of control and lucky it didn't hurt him more. De Jong's throat high karate kick was a stonewall red card.

There can be no argument about Heitinga's red. It might even have been a straight red to be honest though it's irrelevant. And if Webb had followed the letter of the law Robben would have followed him. Fair play to him for not being so anal on that one though.

Webb did okay and was on a hiding to nothing due to the way the Dutch "played". If he dishes out what he should he's accused of losing control and ruining the game ; if he doesn't he's not following the laws and letting the Dutch off with bullying. Never the less, I doubt his referee's observer report scored especially highly last night. Not his best showing but sometimes there's not a lot the referee can do to avoid it.

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Post by lbb » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:14 am

I don't think either side emerged with any credit. Spain have ground out a series of pretty forgettable 1-0 wins in a pretty forgettable tournament. I didn't like the way they kept trying to get Dutch players sent off when they weren't exactly saint-like themselves - Puyol, for example, was lucky to stay on. It would have been a more interesting game if Robben had taken his chance early in the second half. It's not a classic Holland team but they've produced so many good teams that have won nothing and offered so many classic matches at international level that I was rooting for them on that basis. I kinda felt they were 'owed' a World Cup.

The Finals have become very predictable and very tense. It's strange that the Champions League Final - which is arguably just as important, certainly for the players - has really opened up in the last 15 years or so and produced some classics compared to the 1980's 1-0 nadir but the World Cup Final has regressed.

EDIT - Re Webb. He got 2 big decisions wrong prior to Spain's goal. I accept the argument that you can go too far and ultimately Spain still had to create the goal. However, by failing to award a corner from Sneijder's deflected freekick and then a freekick when Elia was sandwiched by two Spaniards then it could be argued that the pattern of play was seriously altered and Spain might not have scored otherwise.

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Post by Scottish » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:11 am

lbb wrote: it could be argued that the pattern of play was seriously altered and Spain might not have scored otherwise.
Just as by not reducing Holland to eight or nine men by half-time also altered the pattern of play.

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Post by lbb » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:48 pm

scottish wrote: Just as by not reducing Holland to eight or nine men by half-time also altered the pattern of play.
Possibly. But then should Iniestia even have been on the park to score the goal after his petulant swipe at van Bommel and kick at Sneijder?

Both teams indulged in lots of petty and not-so-petty fouls and the game never really got started as a result.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:58 pm

"IF IFS & ANDS WERE POTS & PANS, THERE`D BE NO WORK FOR TINKERS` HANDS"

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Post by Scottish » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:20 pm

lbb wrote:
Possibly. But then should Iniestia even have been on the park to score the goal after his petulant swipe at van Bommel and kick at Sneijder?.
I wonder why he did that.

Have a look here

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Post by the hibLOG » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:26 pm

I hardly think Iniesta's 'swipe' was worthy of anything. And if you're casting stones at his readiness to fall over, how about Van Bommel's reaction to Iniesta's nudge? Pretty pathetic in itself.

As I've said on the other thread, I don't think the high challenge was malicious - more clumsy and bad judgement - and therefore a yellow card was about right. I know you can deserve a red card for a badly judged but honest attempt to get the ball in other circumstances, but that wasn't one for me.
Fraser

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