THE GRANNY RULE

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THE GRANNY RULE

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:24 pm

It`s high time Levein stopped this nonsense - trawling through the minor leagues in England looking for anyone with a Scotch granny. To coin a tried & trusted phrase,"What have they ever done for us?" On Wednesday night the side vs. Slovenia had Englishmen Martin, Morrison & Mackail-Smith with Gilks on the bench while the U21s fielded Cairney, Rhodes & Kelly with benchman Pawlett. We`ve also had Bardsley this season with the seniors and Commons would have played too I`m sure if he hadn`t been injured. The U21s have also fielded Palmer. And it`s getting worse with FIFA bringing in the residential qualification which almost allowed Hearts` Driver to don the dark blue recently. None of these players has made us any better than mediocre so that being the case why can`t we be mediocre with XI Scots in the side? Matt Elliott, Jonathon Gould, Scott Dobie, Robbie Stockdale, Graeme Murty, Paul Devlin, Andy Gray(2003), Nigel Quashie & Danny Fox - none of them has been ANY improvement on home born players. Is Levein trying to be just so today? It`s too late to joke that he`ll soon be seen on a Blue Square League touchline any day soon; the substitute goal for the U21s on Wednesday plays for Bishop Stortford. A Scotch Tony Cascarino can`t be far away. Ye gods.
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Re: THE GRANNY RULE

Postby scottish » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:05 pm

When every other country is using this rule then it would be daft of Scotland not to. Problems only arise if Levein is drafting in players not up to scratch and on that I would agree with you. But there have been plenty of players who did give Scotland excellent service who weren't native-born though I think they qualified under the 'one parent' rule - Bruce Rioch, Stuart McCall, Andy Goram, Don Hutchinson to cite just a few. The Irish have been using the Granny rule for so long they don't even think about it any more and by and large their international record has been better than Scotland's in recent times.
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Re: THE GRANNY RULE

Postby Skyline Drifter » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:23 pm

Couldn't agree less.

As my mate used to say on being reminded he was born in Hull (his dad had been sent there for a period for work), "I was born in a hospital, doesn't make me a doctor".

If people are eligible to play for Scotland under present rules and are better than what we have then we should absolutely be actively pursuing them. If you wish to debate the quality and criticise the manager for picking players worse than alternatives that's fine. But I cannot agree that he should pick only players who were born here. The inclusion of Andy Gray in the list being a particularly ludicrous example as his father was a Scottish international born and bred in Glasgow who happened to be playing in England when his son was born. Now Andy Gray just fundamentally wasn't very good and shouldn't have been in the international set up really but he damn well had every right to be selected and consider himself as Scottish as the rest of us if he wants. Devlin and Murty were also sons of direct born Scots incidentally, not "granny" rule players.

Dismissing Bardsley as no better than what we could field locally is ridiculous too. He's come on a long way since his days of struggling to make the Rangers side and he's easily our best full back (yes, including Hutton who has done little to justify the hype in a couple of years now). He probably wouldn't be that far from the English side now if he was still eligible.
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Re: THE GRANNY RULE

Postby scottish » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:42 pm

Skyline Drifter wrote:Couldn't agree less.

As my mate used to say on being reminded he was born in Hull (his dad had been sent there for a period for work), "I was born in a hospital, doesn't make me a doctor".


I think it was the Duke of Wellington on being described as Irish who said being born in a stable wouldn't have made him a horse. Not one Jack Charlton could have picked.
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Re: THE GRANNY RULE

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:32 am

Whether or not Andy Gray`s father played for Scotland is irrelevant, Gray himself wasn`t born in Scotland and I reiterate, what`s the point of having internationals at all if the players involved are not from the country of the FA? Players like Gordon Marshall(snr.), J.B.McAlpine, Joe & Gerry Baker were Scottish through and through but couldn`t get a game for Scotland because they weren`t born in Scotland: it was tough on them while in the midst of it Jimmy Wardhaugh sneaked a couple of caps in the 1950s although born a mile or so South of the border. The "granny rule"(a generic term, please note) and the more recent domicle rule are just diluting and degrading international football.
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Re: THE GRANNY RULE

Postby scottish » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:13 pm

LEATHERSTOCKING wrote:The "granny rule"(a generic term, please note) and the more recent domicle rule are just diluting and degrading international football.


That's a different argument. Scotland play under the same rules as every other country and I see no reason why we should weaken ourselves while others are not doing so.
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Re: THE GRANNY RULE

Postby Skyline Drifter » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:35 pm

LEATHERSTOCKING wrote:Whether or not Andy Gray`s father played for Scotland is irrelevant, Gray himself wasn`t born in Scotland and I reiterate, what`s the point of having internationals at all if the players involved are not from the country of the FA? Players like Gordon Marshall(snr.), J.B.McAlpine, Joe & Gerry Baker were Scottish through and through but couldn`t get a game for Scotland because they weren`t born in Scotland: it was tough on them while in the midst of it Jimmy Wardhaugh sneaked a couple of caps in the 1950s although born a mile or so South of the border. The "granny rule"(a generic term, please note) and the more recent domicle rule are just diluting and degrading international football.

It's not irrelevant and the you've effectively answered your own question with the reference to the Bakers.

The rule back then was ridiculous and farcical and has been addressed. The present solution isn't without it's flaws but it's a damned sight better than what existed then. It's inevitably about opinion but I don't believe it's diluting or degrading international football.

I do think there's sometimes an almost desperation on the part of Levein and Vogts before him (not so much Smith and McLeish who didn't really need to focus on rebuilding so much) to seek out eligible players and get them capped come what may when they may be no better than what we otherwise have. I'm not convinced Mackail-Smith, decent as he has done or possibly even Mackie though he too has done some good things, are good enough that overlooking the likes of Goodwillie for them was necessary, though it does save him having to climbdown to Steven Fletcher. And quite what the point of continuing to bring Matt Gilks along for the ride when he's got little chance of ever playing I've no idea. However, that's a criticism of the manager, not the rules. Matt Phillips is an exciting addition though and I welcome his inclusion along with the prospect of a developing Jordan Rhodes. James Morrison and Bardsley have been excellent additions for Scotland too.
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