Setanta

[lbb]

I share your disappointment about their demise. Whatever my occasional grumblings about their coverage, they did try and promote Scottish football in a way that put Sky and BBC Scotland to shame when they held the contract. Anything that allows Sky to extend their grip on the sports rights market in the UK and reduces the standing and financial status of Scottish football is plainly a bad thing and no-one should be in any doubts about that.

I agree that Setanta Sports News was a strange idea. When ITV attempted a 'Soccer Saturday' programme the then head of ITV recalled that whenever he walked into a pub or a cafe on a Saturday afternoon it was always Sky Sports that was on - never ITV's version. They soon learned their lesson. Setanta also had a dedicated golf channel whilst continuing to show golf on Setanta 1 and 2. It made little sense. It looks like a classic case of trying to be too big too quickly.

I'm not sure I would read too much into the Celtic TV/Rangers TV subscription model in itself. I can get the club channels for Real Madrid, Liverpool and Arsenal without subscription and I don't think anyone would suggest these clubs struggled for worldwide support. I would concur generally, though, that the OF - Celtic more than Rangers, in my view - exaggerate the level of interest in their activities at least in the Scottish Premier League. I would add that the bulk of Scottish subscribers to Setanta would have been Old Firm supporters given the considerable incentive - club channels and every away match live - for them to do so. The fact these numbers have proved insufficient reveals the flaw in trying to have a premium sports package on the back of only two large clubs and their relatively small audience of Scots and pockets of ex-pats.

I can't help but feel that the whole experience is a humbling one for Scots. It's not quite Argentina '78 and Setanta's problems are not as a direct result of the SPL but it's plain to see that Setanta's hardcore Scottish subscriber base was not enough to sustain it and we will always require the support and co-operation of our biggest trading partner down south.

[lbb]

I would agree that, unless banks get nervous, no club should go under over this and the biggest impact will be in future contracts, squad sizes, etc. Clubs will simply have to adjust like almost every other business has had to over the last 12 months.

Someone said to me on another forum that he thought FOUR clubs could disappear from the SPL and they would be replaced by the top four of the SFL last season. This would include Dunfermline who, last time I checked, were crippled by debt. It's certainly the mad season when they're being suggested as a financially sound alternative to SPL basket cases.

[scottish]

Broadfoot has now named Killie in a Herald article full of those old journalistic fallbacks - "could," "expected," "possibly," "believed," "likely," "reports," "awaiting confirmation," "every chance."

And STV's midnight deadline has come and gone with nothing happening either.

The situation is bad enough without all this scaremongering.

[lbb]

The way we were II. If David Murray gets a gold medal for his vision then Andrew Smith gets a gold...shower, presumably. Scotland on Sunday, July 20, 2008 -

'The contracts the SPL announced last week to show their product on BT Vision and BBC's Gaelic channel mean their showcase live Setanta coverage - which, when the recently-agreed new three-year deal kicks in come 2010-11, will rake in GBP 30m a season - will be supported by a variety of packages delivering Scottish football four different ways. No league from a country of comparable size can now boast such television exposure or healthy financial returns from media partnerships. Yeah, Lex Gold and his SPL cronies couldn't run a raffle.'

[scottish]

There's an explantion of sorts as to how the money is divided on the SPL website

Still impossible to say exactly how much the Setanta element is worth to each club as all SPL monies are lumped together and then deductions are made for running costs, SFL and "parachute" payments before disbursement to SPL clubs.

The sliding scale of payments means each league position is worth half a percentage point more from positions 12-4. Then there's a 1% jump for the third club, a whopping 5.5% difference between third and second and 2% between the top two. So the top two clubs get almost a third of the total pot between them.

[lbb]

Is there a reason why a PPV channel set up by the SPL couldn't work?

According to this article (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0609/1224248422507.html), Setanta have 360,000 subscribers in Scotland. We'll discount Scottish subscribers in England and assume this 360,000 is the market of people willing to pay £10 a month for Scottish football. If they'll pay Setanta for it, we can assume they'll pay someone else for it. So that's £36m in subscriber revenue - we'll assume a lot of people cancel during the summer months.

According to this site (http://telebusillis.blogspot.com/2007/09/setanta-squandered-opportunity.html), Setanta will pay £1 per sub per month to Sky for carriage and £100,000 per game on production. These figures are from two years ago, so we'll assume a figure of £5m for each on Scottish subscriber numbers and SPL games broadcast. Setanta pay the SPL £13m per season in the present deal. But that still leaves around £13m. We'll add in marketing, customer service costs, etc. at an additional £5m but that still leaves around £8m in profit.

Perhaps there's some technicalities I've missed and, of course, everything would be dependent upon subscriber numbers. However, a lot of Setanta personnel - cameramen, editors, mixers, etc. - would have been freelance anyway or provided by an external production company. Would it be that difficult to recruit them ourselves and arrange a carriage contract with Sky? It does seem a little too straightforward but perhaps SPL TV wasn't that bad an idea after all.

[scottish]

I'd be very sceptical over any claims that Setanta have that number of subscribers in Scotland.

[scottish]

That's the ba' officially burst

I note the article says they will "immediately stop collecting subscription payments." I just went to cancel my dd and found they had lifted some cash from my account six days ago despite having promised me two free months in June and July.

[lbb]

The DD guarantee should see you recover your monies if you speak to your bank.

I'd cancelled my DD for June 13th earlier in the month. They phoned me last week to tell me payment had been declined. I told them I doubted they would still be broadcasting next season so had cancelled the DD. The guy nearly exploded. 'What league do you watch?!!?', he demanded. Living in Scotland, he should have worked it out but I told him anyway and he replied 'we've got 65 live SPL games'. I probably didn't help things by saying 'are you sure?' at this point. It seemed a bit cheeky for him to be demanding I pay my debt to them when they have been so cavalier in paying their own debts. In the end, to get him off the phone, I agreed to a new DD for the end of July knowing it would never be claimed. I cancelled it yesterday.

I can understand why some people won't be sorry to see the back of the likes of Scott Booth, Darryl Broadfoot and Graham Spiers. Broadfoot wrote an embarrassing article in The Herald earlier in the week calling for all his chums to be hired by the new rights holder. Whoever takes over the rights, however, will not devote as many hours to Scottish football as Setanta did and that's a plain fact. I never thought their coverage was that bad and people who pine for Sky should remember the days when we were the afterthought to the Championship and Premiership in the Sunday night shift.

[scottish]

Broadfoot's article was a disgrace and for his editor to allow it to be published without any mention that Broadfoot himself worked for Setanta equally so.

You are right about coverage. It's highly unlikely that anything like the same amount of games will be featured on any new package. In particular it's difficult to see where the SPL would fit in with Sky's existing output.

The worst aspect of Setanta was their "customer relations" for which I use quote marks deliberately. They insisted on cancellations being done via an 0871 number rather than a simple letter with one month's notice. I use SAY NO TO 0870 in such circumstances. Trying to speak to them was a nightmare. - unless of course you were calling to subscribe in which case it was easy to get through.

[lbb]

You’re right that Broadfoot declined to mention his own conflict of interest. I kept thinking it was a satirical piece but when I got to the ‘tribute’ to producer Colin Davidson – who will certainly be re-hired by someone – then I knew this was Broadfoot blatantly using The Herald’s pages to try and supplement his income. Shameful. Even more strange was the suggestion that Davidson should team up with ex-Radio Clyde chief Paul Cooney. Anyone with any knowledge of radio will know that Cooney presided over Clyde’s decline over the last 10 years, totally underestimated the power of Real Radio and has left Clyde hopelessly exposed to, and unprepared for, larger, more professional competitors. Just the man to build a media empire, then. But that’s another argument.

It’s alleged that Sky tried to secure the rights last year or the year before so they clearly have some interest, even if only from a strategic point of view. It’s clear that you can kiss goodbye to Sunday 2pm kick-offs and we’ll be bookends – either starting the weekend at 11am on a Saturday or finishing it late on a Sunday night.

When I first subbed to Setanta in 2004, they had a call centre in Kirkcaldy whose staff were very helpful and prompt. Their customer services seemed to decline when they acquired Premiership football and the call centre seemed to move further south – I certainly never heard any of those delightful Fife accents again. It did become impossible to get through to them and it wasn’t unusual to phone them up, be put on hold and then cut off – unless, like you say, you were subscribing.

[scottish]

The DD guarantee should see you recover your monies if you speak to your bank

Not according to my bank. They tried to recover the cash but say it is too long after the transaction. I have e-mailed the administrators. Interestingly the bank told me that I was the twelfth person today who had been offered a deal then seen their money vanish from their account. That's one person on one phone line at one bank. Multiply that and it looks like that for all the talk of last minute rescues they were holding off going into administration until they had maximised their income from not so much gullible as duped customers.

I am angry not at the amount but at the idea that they can offer a deal then go ahead and withdraw the cash. I wonder how many customers have been ripped off.

Never mind, I'm sure Darryl will give this extensive coverage.

[lbb]

It's especially annoying when one turns on Sky and finds Setanta Ireland still cheerily broadcasting away. They also continue to broadcast in other countries around the world. Subscriber money must be somewhere but, no doubt, the owners know absolutely nothing about it and are above suspicion.

Couple of good points on another forum. Aberdeen are already claiming that the loss of Setanta will affect Mark McGhee's budget. Yet Calderwood was fired out the door having been told there was no budget in part because of his failure to progress in the cups. It looks like 'the loss of Setanta' will be the cover for all sorts of price rises, downsizing of ambitions, etc. even though the clubs received the Setanta money due for the summer from the SPL.

Some uneasiness about the relationship between Sky and ESPN. ESPN have given their customer relations contract to Sky. ESPN will rely on Sky's co-operation. Sky won't want a cut-throat battle with ESPN - particularly Murdoch's corporate interests in the States. So a deal might be struck between the two for SPL rights - with the SPL mugs in the middle.

Pure speculation, of course.

[HibeeJibee]

It'll also be interesting to see the days/times Sky or ESPN use. Fans who moaned about Sat 12:30pm or Sun 2pm may be in for a big surprise!! I'd not be at all surprised by Sat 11:15am, Sun 6pm, major matches moved onto Mondays, or fixtures on Thursdays when no Europa League fixtures.

Setanta made the SPL a priority: but ESPN and especially Sky won't do so.

[scottish]

I can't see it being Mondays as the package bought up by ESPN includes Monday night Premiership games for next season. Fridays are a possibility though (obviously not for OF games). Or, as you suggest, back to Sunday 6pm or thereabouts which was the worst possible time from a travelling fan's point of view.