Supporting England

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Supporting England

Postby Snuff » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:11 am

ENGLAND'S 2010 World Cup campaign gets underway in South Africa today. This leaves we Scots, for the third World Cup in a row, outside looking in, with a conundrum – do we support our neighbours, or do we sign-up for the ABE (Anyone But England) campaign?

So, if you're still swithering, here are some aide memoirs as to whether or not to support England.

Ten Reasons to Support England


1. England did, after all - if not actually invent football – give it form and stature, as well as writing the original Laws of the Game.

2. To re-write Andy Cameron's 1978 hit song: “They're representing Britain and here's the reason why: Scotland willnae be there fur they couldnae qualify”.

3. Their squad, might be over-hyped and over-rated, but their qualification with so few top-quality players, no midfield general and so many injury doubts is a triumph of perspiration over inspiration, which we should all applaud.

4. Just think of all those subsidies which the taxes of the 50 million plus in England (allegedly) pay-in to the British tax pot to keep us Scots in style. We should be grateful and support England.

5. “Here's tae us – wha's like us” may be the ultimate Caledonian delusion, over- stating our place in the world. Well, we've spent the best part of 130 years exporting our best footballers to England. Now, they like us, under-perform on the biggest stage and we should therefore show solidarity with England, by backing them.

6.That wisdom might be driven by English opinion, but received wisdom has it that Scotland is: 'The Land of the Dodgy Goalie'. Given that England has taken 'Calamity' James and 'Goofy' Green to South Africa, we must show solidarity with their accident-prone goalies.

7.That Toshiba TV deal: £10 for every goal England scores in South Africa, that's the sort of cash-back deal we canny Scots must support.

8. England has offered homes and shelter to the poor of Eastern Europe and the world. We should welcome the feeling of moral superiority this largesse has given the English, by supporting their desire to prove their sporting excellence in South Africa.

9.They see themselves as our feudal superiors, therefore we are duty bound to fly our St George's Crosses and get behind them.

10. They might stop going on about 1966 if they win.



Ten Reasons Not to Support England

1.Their treatment of Sir William Wallace.

2.The way they have NEVER, since 1707 been able to distinguish between 'England' and 'Great Britain' or 'The United Kingdom' as in Nelson's pre-Trafalgar signal to the BRITISH fleet: “England Expects etc”.

3.The way they continue to hijack God Save the Queen as the English rather than UK national anthem – get your own.

4.Sir Stanley Matthews, Sir Tom Finney, Sir Trevor Brooking, but most of all Sir Geoff Hurst; when it's Mr Denis Law, Mr Kenny Dalglish, Mr Dave Mackay, Mr Billy McNeill.

5.1966 and all that; 1986 - the Hand of God; 1996 - Football's Coming Home; the way they re-write history to glorify England's triumphs and make their defeats
seem like victories.

6.BBC bias – the way the Londoncentric BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation assumes everyone in Britain is behind England all the way.

7.Ian Wright.

8.Their fans. The Tartan Army may be at times guilty of anti-social behaviour, but: we go forth in peace, England travels like an invading army.

9.Ashley Cole.

10.ITV commentators – they make the BBC boys appear models of even-handedness and neutrality.
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Re: Supporting England

Postby scottish » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:25 am

Snuff wrote: 7.Ian Wright.


That'll do for me

Snuff wrote: 8.Their fans. The Tartan Army may be at times guilty of anti-social behaviour, but: we go forth in peace, England travels like an invading army.


I think this one is a bit past its sell by date. A combination of stricter measures to prevent known thugs from travelling and an increasingly diverse ethnic mix in the selection has led to a marked improvement in behaviour in the past decade or so.

We also need to look at ourselves and ask if the 'too-pished-to-fight, Rab C Nesbitt on tour' mentality is really the best we can portray to the world.
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Re: Supporting England

Postby Skyline Drifter » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:45 pm

scottish wrote:
Snuff wrote: 7.Ian Wright.


That'll do for me

Snuff wrote: 8.Their fans. The Tartan Army may be at times guilty of anti-social behaviour, but: we go forth in peace, England travels like an invading army.


I think this one is a bit past its sell by date. A combination of stricter measures to prevent known thugs from travelling and an increasingly diverse ethnic mix in the selection has led to a marked improvement in behaviour in the past decade or so.

We also need to look at ourselves and ask if the 'too-pished-to-fight, Rab C Nesbitt on tour' mentality is really the best we can portray to the world.

Indeed. On both fronts!

Seriously though, I'm a football fan. I don't "hate" England and I'm certainly not in this ridiculous "Anyone But England" mindset. Equally neither do I "support" England. I'm not English and whilst the familiarity with their players means I have more interest in their games than others probably, I consider myself fairly neutral when it comes to them.

I don't really mind if England win or don't. I hope that teams that win deserve to do so generally (unlike Italy last time around who should have been eliminated before they got to the last eight). If that's England then good for them.
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Postby lbb » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:19 pm

I see one English fan on the BBC site blames English nationalism on the Scots for, amongst other things, 'having their own banknotes, which we don't.' Presumably he's never heard of the Bank of England.

I don't mind the English and I don't consider them to be serious contenders for the trophy itself - their inability to keep the ball for any length of time and their bizarre belief that 'the weather' will help them (almost certainly an indication that they intend to run around like chickens on crack) will go against them - but I do tire of the endless updates from 'the camp'. Admittedly, Uruguay v France didn't have much going for it but I'm not sure we needed to spend much of the pre-match build-up and some of HT getting the latest pointless update.

Only two games in and I'm already annoyed with the media. Adrian Chiles telling us that 'for today, we're all South Africa fans'. Er, no, we're not. Mark Lawrenson, as he always does, having a dig at the referee because he's never seen him in the Premiership so is sceptical about his ability to handle big games.
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Postby scottish » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:41 pm

lbb wrote:I see one English fan on the BBC site blames English nationalism on the Scots for, amongst other things, 'having their own banknotes, which we don't.' Presumably he's never heard of the Bank of England.


Not a random supporter but a guy with his own political agenda and books to sell.

I must confess that I found the response to ABE (Anyone But England) quite amusing - SNP (Scotland's Not Playing).
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Re: Supporting England

Postby scottish » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:48 pm

Snuff wrote: Ten Reasons Not to Support England


Having just had the misfortune to glimpse them on TV I can't believe you have missed Baddiel & Skinner.
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Supporting England

Postby Snuff » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:00 pm

[quote][/quote]Scottish wrote: Having just had the misfortune to glimpse them on TV I can't believe you have missed Baddiel & Skinner.

Actually, I don't mind Baddeil and Skinner; Frank Skinner always comes across as a genuine West Brom and England fan, who will say so when his side is: poor or jammy. I also thought Football's Coming Home was one of the better football songs, although I did like Bill Leckie's version: "Sea Lions on their Sh*te" better!!

I also liked the suggestion that instead of joining the ABEs - Anyone But England, the Scots should support the APEs - Anyone Playing England.

It's all banter, although the London-based media's obsession with getting everyone to support England is already, one day in, wearing.
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Postby scottish » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:30 am

I suppose this one

Image

will take its place in history alongside this one

Image
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Postby Gorgiewave » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:57 am

As ever with England at major tournaments, what rankles isn't the fact that they're English, but the sense of entitlement and humourlessness of their self-obsession and lynch mob mentality.

If they went in saying, "we have a decent squad and if we get some breaks we think we can go do well in this tournament", I wouldn't mind.

Spain go in as European champions and with one defeat in about 37 matches, yet the Spanish press isn't losing the heid.

Maybe I just can't stand tabloid newspapers and tabloid people. Hence my enjoying this site.

Not Anyone But England; I prefer a 5-0 humiliation by North Korea, preferibly in the final.
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Postby scottish » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:44 pm

Gorgiewave wrote:
Spain go in as European champions and with one defeat in about 37 matches, yet the Spanish press isn't losing the heid.


That's because as far as the Spanish sporting press are concerned there are more important things happening than a World Cup in which Spain have yet to play. Mourinho's arrival in Madrid and elections for a new Barcelona president (as I write, La Vanguardia's front page lead is a minute-by-minute account of the election).

I have no doubt that once Spain's participation is under way there will be an outbreak of national chauvinism led by the TV stations. If not La Sexta, which routinely proclaims the Spanish league to be the best in the world in every advert for its live matches, then by Cuatro which was the cheerleader-in-chief at Euro 2008.

Though to go back to our old friends the English commentators, Peter Drury tonight managed to equal the dizzy heights he reached in 2002 when he informed his audience that English referee Graham Poll couldn't referee the final because "England will be in it." With no hint of irony in his intonation Drury managed to suggest that as far as the German media were concerned they would have the Germans winning the trophy in tomorrow's front pages. His bare-faced cheek went even further when he went on to discuss the merits of England's knockout opponents and declaring it would be better for England to win their group rather than come second.

But by far the best moment came after the Germans scored their first goal. This, opined Drury, was the "German gene" kicking in.

That'll be the gene shared by players with names like Cacao, Podolski, Gomez, Boateng, Aogo, Ozil, Khedira & Miroslav Klose.

I'd go as far to say that Drury even outshone Clive Tyldesley in the England Uber Alles stakes. Though Tyldesley has plenty of previous - see 'Poison Ivy' here - his commentary on the England-USA match at least showed signs of recognising reality where a certain past World Cup is concerned.

True, it took him only eight seconds play before mentioning the two Bobbys, Moore and Charlton, and he told viewers we could be in for a treat after Steven Gerrard's goal but he was at least (and at last) honest enough to admit that 1966 was history, not memory, as far as the majority of people were concerned.

Here's a simple way for him to keep that in mind. Anyone who voted in the British general election of 1966 now has a pension book.
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Postby the hibLOG » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:50 pm

Peter Drury is a well known knobhead though, and Clive Tyldesley is a proximate small hairy sack. Our own commentators are hardly wonderful - they just never have any cause to do talk up the team beyond glorious failure at best. Even if we didn't have to put up with the English media we would still have an unhealthy interest in England's fortunes, but having their slavering fourth estate foisted upon us makes it doubly difficult to regard them dispassionately.

I caught the last half hour of England plc FC v USA (kick off was 6.30am Saturday here) and chuckled at the evident tones of sarcasm in the English Sky Sports commentators voices. I could tell even before I saw the score that things were not going swimmingly. Talk about over-reaction though - a draw (if it was boxing it was a win on points) against the half-decent second seed in your group in the first match. Panic later, chaps.

Thank you Robert Green for surely laying to rest forever the dodgy Scottish keeper jibes. Terribly unfair to put that horrific blunder alongside Seaman's misjudgement however. No comparison - Seaman got caught with his flies undone - Green was chained naked to a lamp-post in a city centre high street. I don't think even Stewart Kennedy got caught out that badly at Wembley in 75.
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Postby lbb » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:08 am

I try not to get too upset about the coverage of England's World Cup matches - on the grounds that BBC Scotland once employed the Scottish manager's brother to commentate on Scotland matches, a level of incestuousness that not even the English have managed - but I thought ITV's coverage of the England-USA game was really poor. There seemed to be no indication that people other than England fans might be watching and certainly no time was given to talking about the strengths of the US or problems they may cause England. I don't even recall the US team being announced at any point and I began watching at 6.30. I thought the US would get a draw and I was surprised that no-one in the studio seemed to consider this even a remote possibility before the match.
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Postby Insertnamehere » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:38 am

Im finding it hard to bear the fact they are constantly going on about who they will meet in the last 16, the quarters and who they want to avoid until the semi finals. Also last night they were having a go at Ally McLeod and the Scottish fans saying how riduculous it was to be so cock pre tournament, pot kettle?

At least the vuvuzela are drowinging out most of the piffle. I know Hansen take a lot of abuse for his use of us and we will etc but I take it Andy Townsend has totaly given up on his Irish background these days and is taking someone elses shilling?

All in all they havent been as bad as I expected but it early yet, oh with one glaring exception that is.........James Corden is it just me who doesnt see the appeal? Maybe he is a comedy genius and im missing something! I think a big sack some big stones, a rope and a deep cannal would be the best thing for this fella!
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Supporting England

Postby Snuff » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:10 am

I take the well-made points about our Scottish commentators and media not exactly being down-the-middle-neutral when it comes to covering Scotland games.

What gets me though is: yes Arthur, Erchie and Co could be myopic, but they were myopic in broadcasts intended soley for Scottish ears - the English commentators apparently think the whole of the UK is right behind England and will tolerate a totaly-biased, pro-England commentary.

They wouldn't like it if they had to take French or German commentators on England games. Also, in 1974 and 1978, when we qualified and played and England didn't, viewers in England got an English commentator for the Scotland games - why cannot BBC Scotland have a separate, less one-sided commentary on England games this time round?
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Postby scottish » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:53 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:.James Corden is it just me who doesnt see the appeal?


Safe to say the answer to that is no.
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