Accies - 3,800 league games?

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Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby scottish » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:31 am

The SFL claims Hamilton Accies' match at Cappielow last Saturday was their 3,800th league match I make it match number 3,793. Have I missed something? Can anyone help? Even adding on the 1939-40 season brings it to 3,798 according to my records. Are they perhaps counting matches started but later abandoned? Remember, the first four matches in their first season of 1897-98 were played by Renton with Accies taking over their record. The 1945-46 season is not included.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:03 pm

"Saturday's 2-1 win at Morton in the Irn Bru SFL1 was Accies 3800th league match. Our first league match was in November 1897 when we were admitted to fill the place of the famous Renton who hit troubled times. Our complete league playing record now reads Played 3800 Won 1426 Drawn 811 Lost 1563 Goals For 5628 Goals Against 6390." Taken from Accies` official website. Sorry, I can`t check because most of my files are still in storge. I don`t see them playing any test matches pre automatic promotion/relegation.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby scottish » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:19 pm

Yes, that’s what it says on the SFL site too, taken from Accies’ site. They played 14 games in that first season (it shows as 18 in the record books as Renton’s four is added to their tally). The next three seasons were all 18 games so 3x18=54+14=68 and takes us up to 1901. There then followed five seasons at 22 matches each =110. Adding 68 gives us 178 before they entered the top division in 1906. Seven seasons at 34 games is 238 which + 178 gives a running total of 416 to 1913. Four seasons at 38 is 152 + 416 = 568. There were then two seasons at 34=68 and three at 42=126. That makes 762 to 1922.

There’s stability in the structure after that as the remaining 17 inter-war seasons were all at 38 games. 38x17=646. That makes 1408 pre-WW2. 1946-1955 is nine seasons at 30 games = 270. 1955-1965 is ten seasons at 36 games = 360. That’s 2038 up to 1965. 34 games in 1965-66 and 38 in 1966-67 is 72, making 2110 in all. The next seven seasons up to 1974 were all at 36 games and 1974-75 had 38. That’s 290 making 2400. Add on 26 for 1975-76 to make 2426. 1976-1986 is ten seasons at 39 games = 390 to make a total of 2816. The next two seasons were 44 games making 88 to add on to make it 2904. There were 36 games in 1988-89 to make 2940 and the next two seasons were 39 each =78 to bring it to 3018. The three seasons 1991-94 were all at 44 games = 132 to make 3150. There then followed 14 seasons to 2008 at 36 games each for a total of 504 to add to the running tally and make 3654. The past three seasons were all at 38. That’s 114, making 3768 in all. They’ve played 25 league games so far this season for a grand total of 3793.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:38 pm

Perhaps the people doing the Accies` stats are also administrating @ Castle Greyskulls too. Mind you the Accies folk are usually spot on with their stuff. How do your own win, drawn, loss, goals for & against columns match up?
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby scottish » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:20 pm

I haven't got that kind of breakdown but I've checked the match totals three times and also added up again season by season so unless I've missed something somewhere I don't know where the difference is. I agree with you regarding the usual accuracy of their material so I'm hesitant to say I'm right and they're wrong but I can't explain the discrepancy of seven games.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby HibeeJibee » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:29 pm

I also make it 3,793 + 5 games from 1939-40 = 3,798, yep.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby Alan Brown » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:59 am

According the the Hamilton complete record book there were 9 abandoned league
matches. Would these maybe be included in the 3,800 league games?

Abandoned league games:

9/3/07 v Partick Thistle
22/22/08 v Clyde
5/12/07 v Kilmarnock
4/12/09 v Partick Thistle
19/12/09 v Falkirk
21/11/14 v Third Lanark
29/1/27 v Celtic
31/10/70 v Dumbarton
9/9/06 v Clyde

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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby scottish » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:43 am

That's certainly a possibility I wondered about in the initial post. But it would take the tally past 3,800 to 3,802. Given that I've no re-checked three times and HibeeJibee coming to the same total it's beginning to look like Accies are in error somewhere along the line. AFAIK there aren't any Accies historians who frequent this site so I'll send this link to the SFL and see what they think.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby Skyline Drifter » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:01 am

scottish wrote:That's certainly a possibility I wondered about in the initial post. But it would take the tally past 3,800 to 3,802. Given that I've no re-checked three times and HibeeJibee coming to the same total it's beginning to look like Accies are in error somewhere along the line. AFAIK there aren't any Accies historians who frequent this site so I'll send this link to the SFL and see what they think.

Why not email Scott Struthers at Accies directly. If he didn't personally source the information then he'll certainly know who did and be able to contact them.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby scottish » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:18 am

Thanks. I've done just that. I also emailed David Thomson at the SFL. I've removed the email address you posted as they tend to get harvested by spambots.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby Skyline Drifter » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:25 am

scottish wrote:Thanks. I've done just that. I also emailed David Thomson at the SFL. I've removed the email address you posted as they tend to get harvested by spambots.

Ok, sorry, didn't realise that, though it's available on Accies website for anyone who wishes to use it.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby scottish » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:30 am

No problem. It's just a bit of caution I exercise. Some sites do. Some don't. But forum-based sites are particular targets for spammers. That's why often you'll see email addresses given as nameATaddress.com with the word AT instead of the symbol @, thus making the address clear to the reader but the link inactive to spambot.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby scottish » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:48 pm

Scott Struthers has been back in touch to say that in his records the match against Ayr United was match number 3000. As that is match 2995 in my records and he counts the 1939-40 games as official that means we are in agreement to that point. So there is a two-game difference which can't be accounted for by abandoned matches or any played by Renton (these are not included by Accies). The two-game difference comes in sometime between 1990 and now but where he can't be sure.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby HibeeJibee » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:03 pm

Sounds like it has to be a mistake on someone's behalf then... since as they've only had 1 abandoned game since 1990, it can't be someone including that either. Perhaps a mistaken 38-game season instead of 36-game season in someone's tally? They weren't involved in 1990s or 2000s play-offs either.
Last edited by HibeeJibee on Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Accies - 3,800 league games?

Postby scottish » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:42 pm

In the absence of any further clarification from Accies I suggest that LAST Saturday v Ross County was their 3,800th league match INCLUDING the five played in 1939-40, 3,795 if excluding those games.
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