Dave Halliday

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Dave Halliday

Postby Tom Brogan » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:54 pm

I wonder if anyone can give me any career details for Dave Halliday, who played for Queen of the South, St. Mirren, Dundee, Sunderland, Arsenal, Manchester City and Clapton Orient during the 1920s and 30s.

His Wikipedia entry provides some decent background, but I would appreciate any further info if anyone has it.

Thanks.
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Postby Scottish » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:06 pm

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

I don’t want to duplicate the wikipedia article which can be seen here.

Halliday started out as a left-winger with Arrol-Johnston – one of the teams which formed Queen of the South in 1919. At QoS he scored 13 times in 19 games in 1919-20. At St Mirren he played 13 league games in 1920-21, scoring twice before moving to Dens. It was at Dundee - where the celebrated Alec Troup played on the left wing - that he was converted to centre-forward. His record in 1923-24 when he scored 38 league goals in 36 matches is a very good one, coming as it did in the era of the three-man offside rule.

Seasonal breakdown at Dundee

21-22 Lge 28A 23G SC 3A 2G
22-23 Lge 26A 10G SC 8A 5G
23-24 Lge 36A 38G SC 3A 1G
24-25 Lge 36A 19G SC7A 5G

He has the best strike rate (goals to games ratio) of any Sunderland striker in that club’s history. 165 goals in 175 games (156 league from 166 games and nine in nine FA Cup outings) for an average of 0.943 goals per game. And remember, Sunderland include Brian Clough and Charlie Buchan among their past heroes. Only Buchan and all-time Sunderland top scorer Bobby Gurney have scored more goals for the club than Halliday. He scored more hat-tricks (12) than any other Sunderland player and hit four on three occasions.

Seasonal breakdown at Sunderland

25-26 Lge 42A 38G FAC 4A 4G
26-27 Lge 33A 36G FAC 1A 1G
27-28 Lge 38A 35G FAC 3A 4G
28-29 Lge 42A 43G FAC 1A 0G
29-30 Lge 11A 4G
29-30 with Arsenal Lge 15A 8G FAC 0A 0G

At Man City he scored a hat-trick against former club Sunderland in just ten minutes in January 1932. Seasonal breakdown for Man City

30-31 Lge 24 G 14 FAC1 G0
31-32 Lge 40A 28G FAC 5A 4G
32-33 Lge 8A 3G FAC 0A 0G
33-34 Lge 4A 2G FAC 0A 0G

Clapton Orient seasonal breakdown
33-34 21A 19G FAC 1A 0G
34-35 32A 14G FAC 2A 3G
He also scored a further three goals in the FA Cup proper for Yeovil & Petters United before taking over as Aberdeen manager in 1938.

You will see that some of my figures for Halliday’s goals differ from those in the Wikipedia article. There will always be discrepancies in goal tallies, particularly for pre-WW2 players. I take my figures from club histories wherever possible as I consider these to be more reliable than general stats. In this instance club histories for Dundee, Sunderland & Arsenal have been used in compiling the seasonal totals.

By my reckoning (and ignoring QoS figures which are non-league) he scored 92 league goals in Scotland in 145 appearances and a further 13 in 21 Scottish Cup appearances. In England he scored 244 league goals in 310 appearances and a further 19 FA Cup goals in an unknown number of appearances (18 while with league clubs) for a total of 368 first class goals. It’s worth noting that a large chunk of his career was spent playing under the old offside rule, that he was 23 or thereabouts before he played league football and that all his league goals bar those two seasons with Clapton Orient in the Third South were scored in the top flight in both Scotland and England.

Finally, Wikipedia notes he was never capped by Scotland but he did receive representative honours when he played for the Scottish League against the Football League in a 1-1 draw at Ibrox in March 1924.

Wikipedia also claims he played no matches in 1930-31. However since 1888 has him as playing for Man City that season and is a more reliable source.
Last edited by Scottish on Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Tom Brogan » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:15 am

Fantastic, thanks very much.
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Postby Scottish » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:53 pm

Answer above updated to take account of the 1930-31 season with Man City
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Postby Tom Brogan » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:24 pm

Great stuff. Thanks again.
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Postby Ian Halliday » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:00 pm

Hi,

By chance and a bit late in the day, I came across this entry on my father. I would just like to correct one error that was picked up from Wikipedia: namely that this says he was born in 1897.

In fact he was born on 11 December 1901 and this would then make him a more likely 18 or 19 when he made his league debut, rather than 23 as stated in Scottish's otherwise very thorough entry.

Thanks
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Postby Scottish » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:37 pm

Hi Ian,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for correcting the information on your father's birthdate. I took the date from the Since 1888 website and have written to them alerting them to you rpost so that they can make the necessary correction.

Many thanks for pointing this out.
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Postby kirk » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:28 pm

Hi all,

Some great info here guys. The afore mentioned wikipedia page has now been corrected with this page cited as the source of info. Is there any info available on the attributes of Dave Halliday's game? Left or right footed or both? Tall? Short? Good in the air? Strong? Quick? hard worked or penatly box sniffer? Team worker /chance creater?

Also is there any info available on the exploits of any of the following players when at Queen of the South:-

* Hughie Gallacher

* Ian Dickson

* George Hamilton


Is there any info available at all (ie other clubs as well as Queens) on the exploits of the following players who played for Queen of the South:-

* Tom Wylie

* Jimmy McKinnell

* Willie Ferguson

* Jackie Oakes

* Pat Fiztsimmons

* Dougie Sharpe

* Jimmy Binning

* Billy Collings

Regards,
Kirk
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Postby Scottish » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:37 pm

Hi Kirk and welcome to the forum. The official QoS site has information on most of the players you mention. Click the link then go to 'more pages' then 'QOS A-Z.'

There was a QOS history, published in the 1960s and updated in the 1990s which had quite a bit on Hughie Gallacher's time there. The title is 'The Queens 1919-1995'
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Postby Skyline Drifter » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:11 pm

scottish wrote:Hi Kirk and welcome to the forum. The official QoS site has information on most of the players you mention. Click the link then go to 'more pages' then 'QOS A-Z.'

There was a QOS history, published in the 1960s and updated in the 1990s which had quite a bit on Hughie Gallacher's time there. The title is 'The Queens 1919-1995'

There's much better information on Gallacher's time with us in Iain McCartney's similarly titled club history "The Queens 1919 - 2004" which is a much more detailed book.

As a post script, when I was running the club office in the week prior to the Scottish Cup Final I took a phone call from Hughie Gallacher's son who phoned to wish us all the best and said his father had always spoken fondly of his time at Queen of the South. A lovely touch.

EDIT - Billy Collings incidentally still attends Palmerston every week and can easily be gotten hold of to tell you all about his career directly should you wish Kirk?

On a similar note, what information can the worthies on the site provide me about one David 'Popper' Gray, once of Clapton Orient, who played for Queen of the South from their very first match for 4 or 5 seasons I think? His daughter, now in her 90's, is an aquaintance of my mother's and would like to know some more about her father's football career.
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Postby kirk » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:54 am

Hiya guys,

Thanks for this.

I've just given the club shop a quick ring on my lunch break. the gentleman who I spoke to said that there was a history of Queens to 1975 and then another book that covered from then until 1994. There was no mention of a single book that covered from 1919 to 2004. Is this the same as your understanding?

Regards,
Kirk
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Postby kirk » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:11 pm

Hiya Scottish,

I should have mentioned that I have already rocked through the club website thanks and I am looking info on top of what is listed there. The Queens website is a great starter for 10 but for example the info you have provided above on Dave Halliday is different class compared to what is on the Queens website.

This isn't intended as a slight against Queens nor the website.

Regards,
Kirk
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Postby Skyline Drifter » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:11 pm

kirk wrote:Hiya guys,

Thanks for this.

I've just given the club shop a quick ring on my lunch break. the gentleman who I spoke to said that there was a history of Queens to 1975 and then another book that covered from then until 1994. There was no mention of a single book that covered from 1919 to 2004. Is this the same as your understanding?

Regards,
Kirk

The Club Shop isn't open per se on non-match days. If you were lucky you might have spoken to the shop manager if he happened to be in at the time. Otherwise you no doubt spoke to club secretary Eric Moffat.

There's no history of Queens to 1975 to my knowledge.

Bill Jardine wrote a book entitled "Queens 1919 - 1969" for the 50th Anniversary. That's the original one. It's by no means a large or detailed publication and has about two pages on each season plus a list of all the results (though there are errors in them).

For the 75th Anniversary Bill Jardine updated this book and it was re-published as "Queens 1919 - 1995". The earlier chapters are unchanged. It's exactly the same book with the extra 25 (or 26) seasons tacked on.

Bill Goldie published a supplement to this book a couple of years ago covering the next decade. It's entitled "memories of a Modern Era" and covers seasons 1994/95 to 2004/05. It's absolutely deliberately supposed to be a supplement to the Jardine books and is in the same style albeit more detailed with several pages per season.

"The Queens 1919 - 2004" book by Iain McCartney is completely unconnected with the other one and is much more detailed and informative though it doesn't split information specifically by season, rather by periods. It's much better for early years information but doesn't carry the actual results for instance. It was self published on Creedon Publications and is, so far as I'm aware, out of print now.

There were also two pictorial histories published in the last decade or so, one by Ian McDowall and one by the Library. The McDowall one is bigger and better but at the end of the day they are both more or less photo collections, not written histories, though there is some information in there.

I've got all of these so they definitely all exist!
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Postby Scottish » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:08 pm

kirk wrote:Hiya Scottish,

I should have mentioned that I have already rocked through the club website thanks and I am looking info on top of what is listed there. The Queens website is a great starter for 10 but for example the info you have provided above on Dave Halliday is different class compared to what is on the Queens website.

This isn't intended as a slight against Queens nor the website.

Regards,
Kirk


Thanks for the kind words. I think the main difference is that club websites - naturally - concentrate on a player's time with that particular club. In the case of Dave Halliday it was necessary to consult several different club sources in order to provide a comprehensive answer, as I mention in the original response. My problem is that at the moment I don't have access to all my usual sources and it's likely to be another week or so before I am able to compile any information on players along similar lines.
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Postby kirk » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:36 pm

That's a good idea Drifter,

I know someone who knows Billy very well. I've been in touch and he has been very helpful.

Cheers,
Kirk
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